From turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au Thu Jul 1 00:15:40 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ironbark.ucnv.edu.au by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA04929; Thu, 1 Jul 93 00:15:40 EDT Received: by ironbark.ucnv.edu.au id AA26388 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu); Thu, 1 Jul 1993 14:22:39 +1000 From: A Turner Message-Id: <199307010422.AA26388@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au> Subject: PROB: email probs To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu (MUDL) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1993 14:22:39 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL5] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 689 Hi, I havn't recieved mail for a few days from this group so I thought I would investigate. It could be that nobody has sent anything... but just in case I have a few questions (assuming this gets anywhere). Am I still on the mailing list? If not, please put me back on. Is there a news group set up yet? Whats the status? PS. I have just been involved in a departmental shift to a new building so if I have missed anything or if some mail has bounced please excuse me. Could someone mail me directly just as a test. If I get no reply I'll assume the worst. Thanks. Adrian Turner La Trobe University Bendigo turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au or turner@greybox.ucnv.edu.au From spm@atmos.dar.csiro.au Thu Jul 1 02:47:04 1993 Return-Path: Received: from atmos.dar.csiro.au by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA05012; Thu, 1 Jul 93 02:47:04 EDT Received: by atmos.dar.csiro.au (920330.SGI/921111.SGI-930104.DAR) for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu id AA13640; Thu, 1 Jul 93 16:53:09 +1000 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1993 16:52:03 +1200 (EST) From: Shane McEwan Subject: Re: PROB: email probs To: A Turner Cc: MUDL In-Reply-To: <199307010422.AA26388@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 1 Jul 1993, A Turner wrote: > Hi, > I havn't recieved mail for a few days from this group so I thought I > would investigate. It could be that nobody has sent anything... but just in > case I have a few questions (assuming this gets anywhere). I think everyone has gone on holidays. *grin* > Is there a news group set up yet? Whats the status? These things take time. *sigh* > Could someone mail me directly just as a test. If I get no reply I'll assume > the worst. Here it is......direct and via the list. Shane McEwan CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research spm@dar.csiro.au ================================================================================ "Spin my nipple nuts and send me to Alaska!" - Kryten ================================================================================ Aspendale, Victoria, Australia 3195 Phone: +61 3 586 7503 Fax: +61 3 586 7600 From peb@procase.com Thu Jul 1 13:11:02 1993 Return-Path: Received: from procase.procase.com by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA05759; Thu, 1 Jul 93 13:11:02 EDT Received: from banff (banff.procase.com) by procase.procase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/PROCASE-main_cf-930408-2) id AA16298; Thu, 1 Jul 93 10:17:59 PDT From: peb@procase.com (Paul Baclace) Received: by banff (4.1/SMI-4.1/PROCASE-Brent-Subsidiary-SunOS-930408-1) id AA03786; Thu, 1 Jul 93 10:17:58 PDT Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 10:17:58 PDT Message-Id: <9307011717.AA03786@banff.procase.com> To: turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au, spm@dar.csiro.au Subject: Re: PROB: email probs Cc: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu >I think everyone has gone on holidays. *grin* Actually, I thought everyone was absorbing willp's wonderful diagrams. Paul E. Baclace peb@procase.com From gettman@killdeer.lanl.gov Thu Jul 1 14:27:06 1993 Return-Path: Received: from p.lanl.gov by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA06094; Thu, 1 Jul 93 14:27:06 EDT Received: from killdeer.lanl.gov by p.lanl.gov (5.65/1.14) id AA23655; Thu, 1 Jul 93 12:34:18 -0600 Received: from emu.lanl.gov.x1west by killdeer.lanl.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05245; Thu, 1 Jul 93 12:34:17 MDT Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 12:34:16 MDT From: gettman@killdeer.lanl.gov (Doug Gettman) Message-Id: <9307011834.AA05245@killdeer.lanl.gov> To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: MUDL list Please add me to MUDL. I have successfully(?) compiled the binaries, although when running a server on my own machine and connecting to it with the client, the window is just black, and nothing seems to happen. I am running on a Sun Sparc 1+. Thanks Doug Gettman gettman@killdeer.lanl.gov From bt0008@smaug.sbc.com Thu Jul 1 16:54:06 1993 Return-Path: Received: from texbell.sbc.com by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA06830; Thu, 1 Jul 93 16:54:06 EDT Received: from smaug.sbc.com by texbell.sbc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16576; Thu, 1 Jul 93 13:48:03 CDT Received: by smaug.sbc.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.22.1 #22.5) id ; Thu, 1 Jul 93 13:55 CDT Message-Id: Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 13:55 CDT From: bt0008@smaug.sbc.com (Brian Thomas) To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: obsolete mail path for Gregg Jensen Please delete Gregg Jensen (gj9362@{beorn|smaug|shelob}.sbc.com) from your list temporarily. He has left Southwestern bell and I don't yet have his new mail address, though I have been collecting the mail to forward to him. He or I will notify you of the new address soon, hopefully. Brian Thomas DMAA Development Group, Information Services Southwestern Bell Telephone Company Rm 18N25 One Bell Center St. Louis, MO 63101 (314)235-3808 bt0008@smaug.sbc.com From turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au Thu Jul 1 19:51:22 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ironbark.ucnv.edu.au by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA07147; Thu, 1 Jul 93 19:51:22 EDT Received: by ironbark.ucnv.edu.au id AA29434 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu); Fri, 2 Jul 1993 09:58:32 +1000 From: A Turner Message-Id: <199307012358.AA29434@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au> Subject: Email probs: THANKS, All OK. To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 09:58:31 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL5] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 279 Just a thanks to those who responded. Good to see some mail (even if it is not MV related :-) We will have to start having some meaningful MV chats, instead of me wasting bandwidth :) Thanks agian, bye. Adrian Turner La Trobe University Bendigo turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au From turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au Thu Jul 1 19:56:17 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ironbark.ucnv.edu.au by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA07150; Thu, 1 Jul 93 19:56:17 EDT Received: by ironbark.ucnv.edu.au id AA29434 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu); Fri, 2 Jul 1993 09:58:32 +1000 From: A Turner Message-Id: <199307012358.AA29434@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au> Subject: Email probs: THANKS, All OK. To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 09:58:31 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL5] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 279 Just a thanks to those who responded. Good to see some mail (even if it is not MV related :-) We will have to start having some meaningful MV chats, instead of me wasting bandwidth :) Thanks agian, bye. Adrian Turner La Trobe University Bendigo turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au From thinman@netcom.com Fri Jul 2 03:31:49 1993 Return-Path: Received: from netcom3.netcom.com by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA07649; Fri, 2 Jul 93 03:31:49 EDT Received: by netcom3.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id AA20901; Thu, 1 Jul 93 21:57:49 -0700 Message-Id: <9307020457.AA20901@netcom3.netcom.com> From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1993 21:57:49 PDT X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Interesting graphics system I have the manuals for Brown University's UGA system. It has a very nice delegation-based 3D widget system. I'll check on getting public access to these manuals. -- Lance Norskog thinman@netcom.com Data is not information is not knowledge is not wisdom. From willp@rdrc.rpi.edu Mon Jul 5 00:45:59 1993 Return-Path: Received: from rpi.edu by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA12720; Mon, 5 Jul 93 00:45:59 EDT Received: from pulsar0.rdrc.rpi.edu by rpi.edu (4.1/SMHUB41); id AA13274; Mon, 5 Jul 93 00:53:28 EDT for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu From: willp@rdrc.rpi.edu Received: by pulsar0.rdrc.rpi.edu (4.1/1.2-RPI-RDRC) id AA03804; Mon, 5 Jul 93 00:53:26 EDT Message-Id: <9307050453.AA03804@pulsar0.rdrc.rpi.edu> Subject: Re: Sound standards To: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 93 0:53:25 EDT Cc: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu (multiverse) In-Reply-To: <9306280027.AA15555@netcom2.netcom.com>; from "Technically Sweet" at Jun 27, 93 5:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] > Sound samples: > I wrote a program which translates sound sample > files between most file formats available. It > runs on DOS, Unix, Amiga, OS2, VMS, OS9, the moon. > That problem is solved! SOX is in > ftp.cwi.nl:pub/audio/sox6p8.tar.Z and -patch9, > or wait until the next release. The only real standard across every platform is the raw digital sample. The external information about sample rate (11kHz? 8kHz? whatever) is all you need to toss the raw data to a DAC (digital to analog converter). As far as compression goes with sound, I don't think a real computationally intensive algorithm is needed. Zip does wonders, and source is available everywhere. What format a particular operating system wants it in is another story. Modularize sound according to operating systems, and the problem is not one of what format, but who wants to write the code. (and figure out how to make their operating system swallow the data) > Doing something with sound samples is more involved. > Dopper-shifting a moving sound source is a nasty > problem, solved in your favorite MOD player and > on the GUS, a sound card for the PC. You can do some neat things to raw samples... -- "The wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in, gives way, and suddenly... it's day again. The sun is in the east, even though the day is done... Two suns in the sunset. Could it be the human race is run?" -Pink Floyd, The Final Cut, "Two Setting Suns" Will Pierce willp@rdrc.rpi.edu Rensselaer Design Research Center From JOHNAS@ids.net Tue Jul 6 19:03:41 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ids.net by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA19660; Tue, 6 Jul 93 19:03:41 EDT Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1993 19:51:10 -0400 (EDT) From: JOHNAS@ids.net Message-Id: <930705195110.4c41@ids.net> Subject: multiverse To: MULTIVERSE@medg.lcs.mit.edu X-Vmsmail-To: MULTIVERSE@MEDG.LCS.MIT.EDU I was wondering since there isnt much going on. If someone could tell me What is the minimum sys I need to run multiverse. I want to get my feet wet. And since I just started to teach myself unix (c) I would apreciate any help thanks From turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au Wed Jul 7 02:50:08 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ironbark.ucnv.edu.au by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA21317; Wed, 7 Jul 93 02:50:08 EDT Received: by ironbark.ucnv.edu.au id AA21637 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu); Wed, 7 Jul 1993 16:57:13 +1000 From: A Turner Message-Id: <199307070657.AA21637@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au> Subject: WLD: object creation? To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu (MUDL) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 16:57:13 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL5] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 550 HI, I am trying to create an object in a world and rotate it. I don't want this object attached to a parent object (like missiles to the persona in dogfight), I want it to be an indepentent object (if at all possible). I have written the extension code, but how do I tell the client to create the object? I am unsure on which functions calls are required to set it up. Any tips would be appreciated, or even better, does anyone have some sample code? Thanks in advance. Adrian Turner La Trobe University Bendigo turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au From robert@acsc.com Wed Jul 7 13:24:50 1993 Return-Path: Received: from acsc.com by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA23312; Wed, 7 Jul 93 13:24:50 EDT Received: from cpuserver.acsc.com by acsc.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.04/ACSC-MH-1.4) id AA11232; Wed, 7 Jul 1993 10:17:09 -0700 Received: by cpuserver.acsc.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.04/ACSC-SUB-1.5) id AA32536; Wed, 7 Jul 1993 10:17:08 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 10:17:08 -0700 From: robert@acsc.com (Robert Grant) Message-Id: <9307071717.AA32536@cpuserver.acsc.com> To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Re: WLD: object creation? > A Turner writes: > > HI, > > > I am trying to create an object in a world and rotate it. I don't want > this object attached to a parent object (like missiles to the persona in > dogfight), I want it to be an indepentent object (if at all possible). I have > written the extension code, but how do I tell the client to create the object? > I am unsure on which functions calls are required to set it up. > > > Any tips would be appreciated, or even better, does anyone have some > sample code? > > Thanks in advance. Hi Adrian, You need to createLocalObject() with the name and type etc, of the object you want to animate. You will also need to install you extensions to ensure that they are recognised by the server and linked with your object. That should do it. Robert. From gettman@killdeer.lanl.gov Wed Jul 7 14:53:05 1993 Return-Path: Received: from p.lanl.gov by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA23678; Wed, 7 Jul 93 14:53:05 EDT Received: from killdeer.lanl.gov by p.lanl.gov (5.65/1.14) id AA23922; Wed, 7 Jul 93 13:00:43 -0600 Received: from emu.lanl.gov.x1west by killdeer.lanl.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09247; Wed, 7 Jul 93 13:00:43 MDT Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 13:00:43 MDT From: gettman@killdeer.lanl.gov (Doug Gettman) Message-Id: <9307071900.AA09247@killdeer.lanl.gov> To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: servers Anyone have a server running that is open for exploration? Thanks Doug From turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au Thu Jul 8 04:39:48 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ironbark.ucnv.edu.au by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA25379; Thu, 8 Jul 93 04:39:48 EDT Received: by ironbark.ucnv.edu.au id AA14537 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu); Thu, 8 Jul 1993 18:47:24 +1000 From: A Turner Message-Id: <199307080847.AA14537@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au> Subject: WLD: new objects & multiple clients To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu (MUDL) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 18:47:23 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL5] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 904 Hi, In my experimentation I have noticed that if a new object is created in a world it is (if the designer so desires) broadcast to every client to create the object. If a new client is added AFTERWARDS it will naturally be loaded with the world file and have the personas of the other clients added automatically BUT the new object must be explicitly created in the new client. This may be a desired feature but; Should there be a mechanism to automatically inform a new client of created objects (ie. not in the world file) ? Is there already (Maybe I missed something.)? Or is it planned for a later release? With the addition of rooms and portals I would think that this would be extremly relevant. This is possibly a design issue (and may have been thought of before, I haven't read every piece of mail from this group :-) but it may be somthing worth thinking about. Adrian Turner From robert@acsc.com Thu Jul 8 12:54:45 1993 Return-Path: Received: from acsc.com by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA26576; Thu, 8 Jul 93 12:54:45 EDT Received: from cpuserver.acsc.com by acsc.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.04/ACSC-MH-1.4) id AA13583; Thu, 8 Jul 1993 09:56:42 -0700 Received: by cpuserver.acsc.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.04/ACSC-SUB-1.5) id AA17304; Thu, 8 Jul 1993 09:56:40 -0700 Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 09:56:40 -0700 From: robert@acsc.com (Robert Grant) Message-Id: <9307081656.AA17304@cpuserver.acsc.com> To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Re: WLD: new objects & multiple clients > A Turner writes: > > Hi, > > In my experimentation I have noticed that if a new object is created in a > world it is (if the designer so desires) broadcast to every client to create > the object. If a new client is added AFTERWARDS it will naturally be loaded > with the world file and have the personas of the other clients added > automatically BUT the new object must be explicitly created in the new > client. This may be a desired feature but; > > Should there be a mechanism to automatically inform a new client of created > objects (ie. not in the world file) ? Is there already (Maybe I missed > something.)? Or is it planned for a later release? Adrian is correct to say that this is not implemented in 1.0, however 1.1 which appears to be stuck in limbo(!) does provide this. Rooms keep track of the objects that are within them and inform a client, when it enters a room, of all the objects that are present - these could be generated from the world/room file or by clients creating new objects dynamically. Robert. From jhuber@venus.lcs.mit.edu Thu Jul 8 15:46:20 1993 Return-Path: Received: from UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA26838; Thu, 8 Jul 93 15:46:20 EDT Received: from compsci.csm.uc.edu by UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU (PMDF V4.2-12 #3553) id <01H0AWZIXI2O8WXLBM@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU>; Thu, 8 Jul 1993 14:24:06 EDT Received: from venus.csm.uc.edu by compsci.csm.uc.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00304; Thu, 8 Jul 93 14:22:31 EDT Received: by venus.csm.uc.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10429; Thu, 8 Jul 93 13:11:58 EDT Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1993 13:11:55 -0400 (EDT) From: jhuber@venus.lcs.mit.edu (John F. Huber) Subject: Sun Sparc Binaries To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Message-Id: <9307081711.AA10429@venus.csm.uc.edu> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I am still having a lot of trouble either compiling multiverse or getting the binaries for a Sun Sparc. If anyone has Compiled Multiverse for the Sparc or knows where the binaries are via FTP please e-mail me at jhuber@venus.csm.uc.edu Thanks, JF Huber University of Cincinnati From spm@atmos.dar.csiro.au Thu Jul 8 20:23:20 1993 Return-Path: Received: from atmos.dar.csiro.au by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA27321; Thu, 8 Jul 93 20:23:20 EDT Received: by atmos.dar.csiro.au (920330.SGI/921111.SGI-930104.DAR) for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu id AA21839; Fri, 9 Jul 93 10:31:08 +1000 Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 10:23:48 +1200 (EST) From: Shane McEwan Subject: COMP: Sparc binaries To: MUDL Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Robert: Can you send me what you know about compiling on a Sun? I'll see if I can have any luck with the Sparc here and I'll send you the binaries to put up for FTP. What _IS_ the story with v1.1? We're all dying to get our teeth into some portals! Shane McEwan CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research spm@dar.csiro.au ================================================================================ "Life............don't talk to me about life." - Marvin the Paranoid Andriod ================================================================================ Aspendale, Victoria, Australia 3195 Phone: +61 3 586 7503 Fax: +61 3 586 7600 From mpelzshe@man104-1.ucsd.edu Fri Jul 9 18:19:09 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ucsd.edu by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA29390; Fri, 9 Jul 93 18:19:09 EDT Received: from man104-1.ucsd.edu by ucsd.edu; id AA00854 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun via SMTP Fri, 9 Jul 93 15:15:34 -0700 for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Received: by man104-1.UCSD.EDU (NX5.67c/UCSDGENERIC.4) id AA11378 to multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu; Fri, 9 Jul 93 15:15:27 -0700 Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 15:15:27 -0700 From: mpelzshe@man104-1.ucsd.edu (Michael Pelz-Sherman) Message-Id: <9307092215.AA11378@man104-1.UCSD.EDU> To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: SGI problems Hi, everyone! :) I'm attempting to get multiverse running in the SGI lab at Simon Fraser university in Vancouver. I think it might generate some real interest from the folks here for the COMPUTED ART conference! So far, I've got the binaries from the mit ftp site running, and I've managed to get dactyl going, but: 1) The left mouse button doesn't seem to move me at all 2) My point of view keeps continually shifting 3) The firing button (middle mouse) isn't working Anyone have any info on these problems? Thanks! -Michael From eros@ursula.ee.pdx.edu Fri Jul 9 18:43:28 1993 Return-Path: Received: from pdxgate.cs.pdx.edu ([131.252.20.103]) by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA29409; Fri, 9 Jul 93 18:43:28 EDT Received: from peterpan.ee.pdx.edu (goofy.ee.pdx.edu) by pdxgate.cs.pdx.edu (4.1/pdx-gateway-evision: 1.27 id AA08311; Fri, 9 Jul 93 15:51:17 PDT Received: from peterpan.ee.pdx.edu by peterpan.ee.pdx.edu (4.1/pdx-client-evision: 1.21 id AA03030; Fri, 9 Jul 93 15:52:26 PDT From: eros@ursula.ee.pdx.edu Message-Id: <9307092252.AA03030@peterpan.ee.pdx.edu> Subject: Terrain... To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 15:52:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 230 I have compiled Multiverse on the sun sparc systems but I can not see any terrain. I can see my gun and the like. but the world it self does not seem to be being loaded in. Has any one else had this problem and found a solution? From robert@acsc.com Fri Jul 9 19:54:39 1993 Return-Path: Received: from acsc.com by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA29506; Fri, 9 Jul 93 19:54:39 EDT Received: from cpuserver.acsc.com by acsc.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.04/ACSC-MH-1.4) id AA15467; Fri, 9 Jul 1993 16:50:46 -0700 Received: by cpuserver.acsc.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.04/ACSC-SUB-1.5) id AA39315; Fri, 9 Jul 1993 16:50:45 -0700 Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 16:50:45 -0700 From: robert@acsc.com (Robert Grant) Message-Id: <9307092350.AA39315@cpuserver.acsc.com> To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Re: Terrain... I believe that this has something to do with the rand() function in dactyl.c - change the positionObject() code to either a hard coded value or something appropriate. Some rand() functions return different numbers and I believe that you're being position miles away from the platforms/terrain. Robert. From mpelzshe@man104-1.ucsd.edu Fri Jul 9 20:08:29 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ucsd.edu by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA29591; Fri, 9 Jul 93 20:08:29 EDT Received: from man104-1.ucsd.edu by ucsd.edu; id AA05045 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun via SMTP Fri, 9 Jul 93 16:54:52 -0700 for eros@ursula.ee.pdx.edu Received: by man104-1.UCSD.EDU (NX5.67c/UCSDGENERIC.4) id AA11537 to multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu; Fri, 9 Jul 93 16:54:46 -0700 Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 16:54:46 -0700 From: mpelzshe@man104-1.ucsd.edu (Michael Pelz-Sherman) Message-Id: <9307092354.AA11537@man104-1.UCSD.EDU> To: eros@ursula.ee.pdx.edu, multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Re: Terrain... Have you tried turning around? I've noticed that upon first entering the dactyl world, you can't see anything but your hand and the gun. (There's more to dactyl than meets the eye, at least at first sight!) -Michael From eros@ursula.ee.pdx.edu Sat Jul 10 20:26:50 1993 Return-Path: Received: from pdxgate.cs.pdx.edu ([131.252.20.103]) by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA00481; Sat, 10 Jul 93 20:26:50 EDT Received: from ursula.ee.pdx.edu by pdxgate.cs.pdx.edu (4.1/pdx-gateway-evision: 1.27 id AA16642; Sat, 10 Jul 93 17:34:43 PDT Received: from ursula.ee.pdx.edu by ursula.ee.pdx.edu (4.1/pdx-client-evision: 1.21 id AA09020; Sat, 10 Jul 93 17:35:50 PDT From: eros@ursula.ee.pdx.edu (In UNIX no one can hear you scream.) Message-Id: <9307110035.AA09020@ursula.ee.pdx.edu> Subject: Re: Terrain... To: lindahl@csr.uta.edu (Charlie Lindahl) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 17:35:49 -0700 (PDT) Cc: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <9307102324.AA06575@csr> from "Charlie Lindahl" at Jul 10, 93 06:24:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 442 Charlie Lindahl writes: > > I don't get ANYTHING on my screen ... what version of the SUNOS are > you running? 4.0, 4.1, 4.1.1, 4.1.2, Solaris? > > Charlie I get the control panel and my gun, and I when I turn around, I see the shading change on my gun, also if I fire my gun, I can see the shot. But that is about the some total of what I see. There is no terrain to be seen. I am running SunOS 4.1.3. Thanks for any help... eros From mpelzshe@man104-1.ucsd.edu Sat Jul 10 22:22:12 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ucsd.edu by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA00587; Sat, 10 Jul 93 22:22:12 EDT Received: from man104-1.ucsd.edu by ucsd.edu; id AA19942 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun via SMTP Sat, 10 Jul 93 16:20:40 -0700 for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Received: by man104-1.UCSD.EDU (NX5.67c/UCSDGENERIC.4) id AA12537 to multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu; Sat, 10 Jul 93 16:20:32 -0700 Date: Sat, 10 Jul 93 16:20:32 -0700 From: mpelzshe@man104-1.ucsd.edu (Michael Pelz-Sherman) Message-Id: <9307102320.AA12537@man104-1.UCSD.EDU> To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: SGI help anyone? Hello out there? I'm still looking for help on getting MV to run on networked SGI's. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the way my client and server are configured. The worst part is, when a second player enters the world, he takes over control of the first player - sort of. The system seems confused about who is who in the world; my point of view seems to shift abruptly from one player's to the other. Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated, as I am currently in residence at a very widely attended conference with many potentially interested parties. We have a lab full of Indigo's and rooms filled with students who might really love this stuff! -Michael From rwebb@panix.com Sat Jul 10 23:02:30 1993 Return-Path: Received: from panix.com by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA00596; Sat, 10 Jul 93 23:02:30 EDT Received: by panix.com id AA23101 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu); Sat, 10 Jul 1993 23:10:26 -0400 From: Russell Webb Message-Id: <199307110310.AA23101@panix.com> Subject: Multiverse availability for Linux? To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 23:10:25 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 734 I've enjoyed reading the messages on the Multiverse list for the past month or so, but I have to admit that it all seems a bit abstract for me, having never seen the program itself. I'd joined the list hoping to find out more about the program, and about the Linux port that was apparently in progress. Is a Linux port still being done, or is it actually available now? I'd tried compiling it but ran into some snags I couldn't figure out. [Plus with numerous compilation difficulty reports from commercial unices and lack of time and ability, I didn't pursue the compilation from the stock source any further than an hour or two, since the Linux port by more knowledgable programmers was due soon.] -Russell Webb rwebb@panix.com From spm@atmos.dar.csiro.au Sun Jul 11 19:35:01 1993 Return-Path: Received: from atmos.dar.csiro.au by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA01031; Sun, 11 Jul 93 19:35:01 EDT Received: by atmos.dar.csiro.au (920330.SGI/921111.SGI-930104.DAR) for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu id AA03302; Mon, 12 Jul 93 09:42:58 +1000 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 09:40:55 +1200 (EST) From: Shane McEwan Subject: Re: SGI help anyone? To: Michael Pelz-Sherman Cc: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <9307102320.AA12537@man104-1.UCSD.EDU> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 10 Jul 1993, Michael Pelz-Sherman wrote: > Hello out there? I'm still looking for help on getting > MV to run on networked SGI's. I'm pretty sure it has to > do with the way my client and server are configured. The worst > part is, when a second player enters the world, he takes over control > of the first player - sort of. The system seems confused about > who is who in the world; my point of view seems to shift abruptly > from one player's to the other. Each client that enters the world is identified by the login name of the person running the client. So, use the '-n name' option to make each client unique. Shane McEwan CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research spm@dar.csiro.au ================================================================================ "We have to believe in free will. We've got no choice." - Isaac Bashevis Singer ================================================================================ Aspendale, Victoria, Australia 3195 Phone: +61 3 586 7503 Fax: +61 3 586 7600 From spm@atmos.dar.csiro.au Sun Jul 11 19:39:10 1993 Return-Path: Received: from atmos.dar.csiro.au by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA01043; Sun, 11 Jul 93 19:39:10 EDT Received: by atmos.dar.csiro.au (920330.SGI/921111.SGI-930104.DAR) for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu id AA03709; Mon, 12 Jul 93 09:47:16 +1000 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 09:44:04 +1200 (EST) From: Shane McEwan Subject: Re: SGI problems To: Michael Pelz-Sherman Cc: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <9307092215.AA11378@man104-1.UCSD.EDU> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 9 Jul 1993, Michael Pelz-Sherman wrote: > So far, I've got the binaries from the mit ftp site running, and > I've managed to get dactyl going, but: > > 1) The left mouse button doesn't seem to move me at all > 2) My point of view keeps continually shifting > 3) The firing button (middle mouse) isn't working > > Anyone have any info on these problems? Hmmmmmm, those are my binaries and I haven't actually tried running them on an SGI console so I don't know if the buttons work or not. I've always run it on the X Terminals because we get better performance for straight X stuff. Shane McEwan CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research spm@dar.csiro.au ================================================================================ "We have to believe in free will. We've got no choice." - Isaac Bashevis Singer ================================================================================ Aspendale, Victoria, Australia 3195 Phone: +61 3 586 7503 Fax: +61 3 586 7600 From mpelzshe@man104-1.ucsd.edu Mon Jul 12 10:26:34 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ucsd.edu by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA02334; Mon, 12 Jul 93 10:26:34 EDT Received: from man104-1.ucsd.edu by ucsd.edu; id AA23684 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun via SMTP Sun, 11 Jul 93 22:55:23 -0700 for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Received: by man104-1.UCSD.EDU (NX5.67c/UCSDGENERIC.4) id AA13757 to multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu; Sun, 11 Jul 93 22:55:13 -0700 Date: Sun, 11 Jul 93 22:55:13 -0700 From: mpelzshe@man104-1.ucsd.edu (Michael Pelz-Sherman) Message-Id: <9307120555.AA13757@man104-1.UCSD.EDU> To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Modifying & Building worlds OK, so now that I have MV running on the SGI, how do I go about building new worlds? I've managed to get WorldBuilder running, and I've tried opening the dactyl.wld file in order to make some simple change, such as altering the color of the base, for example. When I have the base selected I choose edit->colour and change the colour, but the colour doesn't change in the view below, and when I save the file, the date of the dactyl.wld file is not changed, and (naturally) the dactyl server looks no different when I re-enter the world. I notice the .wld files are editable text. Is it possible to just edit these files directly, bypassing wb? (My initial attempts at this failed; i.e.: no change to the world.) Do I have to recompile the server to get this to work? Thanks again... -Michael From mpelzshe@man104-1.ucsd.edu Mon Jul 12 11:01:28 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ucsd.edu by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA02426; Mon, 12 Jul 93 11:01:28 EDT Received: from man104-1.ucsd.edu by ucsd.edu; id AA21395 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun via SMTP Sun, 11 Jul 93 21:42:23 -0700 for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Received: by man104-1.UCSD.EDU (NX5.67c/UCSDGENERIC.4) id AA13673 to multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu; Sun, 11 Jul 93 21:42:13 -0700 Date: Sun, 11 Jul 93 21:42:13 -0700 From: mpelzshe@man104-1.ucsd.edu (Michael Pelz-Sherman) Message-Id: <9307120442.AA13673@man104-1.UCSD.EDU> To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Thanks! Thanks to Will and Shane, I got it running! Yay! Now we'll see if we can make an impact on the artists here! -Michael From Robert_Grant.LAX1B@xerox.com Mon Jul 12 17:23:35 1993 Return-Path: Received: from alpha.xerox.com by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA02869; Mon, 12 Jul 93 17:23:35 EDT Received: from LAX1B_Mail_Service_3.LAX1B.Xerox.xns by alpha.xerox.com via XNS id <11664>; Mon, 12 Jul 1993 13:41:00 PDT X-Ns-Transport-Id: 0000AA009CC5976F2FFD Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 13:40:46 PDT From: Robert_Grant.LAX1B@xerox.com Subject: Re: Modifying & Building worlds In-Reply-To: "mpelzshe@man104-1.ucsd:edu:Xerox's message of 11-July-93 (Sunday) 22:55:13 PDT" To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Message-Id: <"12-Jul-93 13:40:46 PDT".*.Robert_Grant.LAX1B@Xerox.com> Hi Michael, The worldBuilder program should be viewed as a demo program - i.e. no save facility - basically I ran out of time when developing it. To see changes in the worldBuilder view windows you need to turn the tracking to on for the windows you're interested in - this is in the Options Menu. Or you can just hit one of the view buttons wire, hidden, shaded. You can edit the world files by hand and they should be shown (the server loads then transparently in 1.0.2) however you will need to define .defs for the need object types you include. Robert From jhuber@venus.lcs.mit.edu Mon Jul 12 20:13:50 1993 Return-Path: Received: from UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA03236; Mon, 12 Jul 93 20:13:50 EDT Received: from compsci.csm.uc.edu by UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU (PMDF V4.2-12 #3553) id <01H0GUK8JL0G8WXXZX@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU>; Mon, 12 Jul 1993 20:19:15 EDT Received: from venus.csm.uc.edu by compsci.csm.uc.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00580; Mon, 12 Jul 93 20:17:13 EDT Received: from saturn.csm.uc.edu by venus.csm.uc.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04798; Mon, 12 Jul 93 20:27:37 EDT Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 20:28:38 -0400 (EDT) From: jhuber@venus.lcs.mit.edu (John F. Huber) Subject: Sun Sparc Binaries To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Message-Id: <9307130027.AA04798@venus.csm.uc.edu> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I am still having a lot of trouble either compiling multiverse or getting the binaries for a Sun Sparc. If anyone has Compiled Multiverse for the Sparc or knows where the binaries are (or at least a good location for the source) via FTP please e-mail me at jhuber@venus.csm.uc.edu Thanks, JF Huber University of Cincinnati From mpelzshe@man104-1.ucsd.edu Mon Jul 12 21:09:31 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ucsd.edu by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA03273; Mon, 12 Jul 93 21:09:31 EDT Received: from man104-1.ucsd.edu by ucsd.edu; id AA12217 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun via SMTP Mon, 12 Jul 93 16:40:07 -0700 for Robert_Grant.LAX1B@xerox.com Received: by man104-1.UCSD.EDU (NX5.67c/UCSDGENERIC.4) id AA14795 to multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu; Mon, 12 Jul 93 16:39:56 -0700 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 16:39:56 -0700 From: mpelzshe@man104-1.ucsd.edu (Michael Pelz-Sherman) Message-Id: <9307122339.AA14795@man104-1.UCSD.EDU> To: Robert_Grant.LAX1B@xerox.com, multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Re: Modifying & Building worlds Gotcha, Robert! I hope you are working on finishing wb, because for me it is by far the most interesting aspect of the system. As it turned out, I was able (finally) to figure out how to edit things in the .def and .wld files and make changes to the worlds. I guess for now I'll just have to use the text-only input format (sigh). Incidentally, I'm still having intermittent problems with the left two mouse buttons on the SGI. Occasionally, these buttons will simply stop working, and the only fix is to start up a new shell, whereupon they work again. The lockup seems to happen after I use the right mouse button to alter my head angle. I also noticed that the libraries for compiling new worlds seem to be missing from the tar file. I take it this means I have to compile them on theSGI. Has anyone successfully accomplished this? I get a fatal syntax error right away (unmatched `)! Thanks again for your help, one and all! -Michael From turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au Wed Jul 14 02:30:46 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ironbark.ucnv.edu.au ([149.144.2.60]) by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA05094; Wed, 14 Jul 93 02:30:46 EDT Received: by ironbark.ucnv.edu.au id AA17850 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu); Wed, 14 Jul 1993 16:38:38 +1000 From: A Turner Message-Id: <199307140638.AA17850@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au> Subject: MISC: Screen flicker To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu (MUDL) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 16:38:38 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL5] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 753 Hi, I am running a small animated world on a SUN IPX , spheres rotating etc, and a few polygons every frame flicker, apparently at random, to other colours. My theory is that as the colourmap for the next frame is being changed during rendering it effects the currently visable frame. Does this sound reasonable? Does this happen to other people? Would it solve the problem if the new colours where buffered until the pixmap is blitted onto the screen? I don't want to start changing the rendering code, just for my machine, if I don't have to, so I thought I would ask a few opinions. If I am right will this be catered for in 1.1? If not, any ideas on the problem? Thanks. Adrian Turner La Trobe University Bendigo turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au From turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au Wed Jul 14 02:35:48 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ironbark.ucnv.edu.au by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA05098; Wed, 14 Jul 93 02:35:48 EDT Received: by ironbark.ucnv.edu.au id AA17850 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu); Wed, 14 Jul 1993 16:38:38 +1000 From: A Turner Message-Id: <199307140638.AA17850@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au> Subject: MISC: Screen flicker To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu (MUDL) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 16:38:38 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL5] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 753 Hi, I am running a small animated world on a SUN IPX , spheres rotating etc, and a few polygons every frame flicker, apparently at random, to other colours. My theory is that as the colourmap for the next frame is being changed during rendering it effects the currently visable frame. Does this sound reasonable? Does this happen to other people? Would it solve the problem if the new colours where buffered until the pixmap is blitted onto the screen? I don't want to start changing the rendering code, just for my machine, if I don't have to, so I thought I would ask a few opinions. If I am right will this be catered for in 1.1? If not, any ideas on the problem? Thanks. Adrian Turner La Trobe University Bendigo turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au From js@bison.lif.icnet.uk Wed Jul 14 08:34:12 1993 Return-Path: Received: from bison.lif.icnet.uk by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA05231; Wed, 14 Jul 93 08:34:12 EDT Message-Id: <9307141234.AA05231@MEDG.lcs.mit.edu> Received: from calvin.lif.icnet.uk.biu by bison.lif.icnet.uk; Wed, 14 Jul 93 13:44:59 BST Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 13:44:59 BST From: js@bison.lif.icnet.uk (Jack Shirazi ) Sender: js@bison.lif.icnet.uk To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Design: Inter-process interface A while ago I suggested that a useful thing to have for multiverse would be a defined inter-process communication protocol. That way, you could model objects in the language of your choice, and just comply with the need to send defined messages to the interface. I mulled over the inter-process interface that we'd want to use. I see three top-level things to choose: 1. The system communication protocol 2. The messaging protocol 3. Whether user-clients can communicate to the multiverse client, the multiverse server or both. These are actually not separable, in that choices for any one can affect the others. However (note that I've only had quick peeks at the multiverse code, so if I get anything wrong about how its done at the moment, please correct me): 1. The current system communication protocol used in multiverse is stream sockets in the internet domain. This would be my choice for the inter-process protocol too. It provides sequenced reliable two-way connections based on byte streams. I think an unreliable communication protocol (e.g. datagram) would not work in the multiverse paradigm, as it would require the server to be constantly broadcasting updates, and wouldn't allow the client to take on extra processing burdens as easily. The fact that its byte based has bearing on (2) above, but then I'm about to suggest a byte based messaging protocol, so thats just as well. 2. The current messaging protocol is by structures. Various structures can be sent, they have to be packaged at one end and unpackaged at the other. I don't know how extensible it is at the run-time level. This model (pack->unpack) is useful in situations where you know all the possible message types, it allows you to keep messages as short as possible. However if you are looking for a generic extendable protocol, then because of the variability in the types of packages, you loose any real advantage (my guess). I would propose a simple byte based protocol whereby multiverse can have a vocabulary of 64k words (two bytes). This would allow the most common actions to be spelled out in any two byte message. Some (most) of the messages would actually be words saying that x more bytes consist of data items to be processed in such and such a way. Note that this can also allow a large measure of security, the bytes are translated by the receiving system which then does whatever, but there are no direct operations which can result in system calls (unless the receiving process includes that as an option). This also allows for a simple cross platform capability - the first thing the receiving process does is to send all bytes in order back to the calling process. The calling process can then check these and map them into the order that it sees them as, in a lookup table. The calling process then has the responsibility to ensure that all bytes sent are as per the receiving process's byte order. 3. I envisage the need for communicating both to the multiverse client and server. If I set up a process which is some autonomous agent, I want it to act independently in many situations (slows it down and is pointless to go through the client) but at times I may want it to interact with me (which it could do through the server, but maybe I want to ensure total privacy, in which case I want it to deal directly with my client so that there is no possibility of messages being tapped. Further, the client inter-process protocol would actually allow clients to talk directly to each other, without the server - which leads to interesting possibilities. From turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au Sun Jul 18 23:39:22 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ironbark.ucnv.edu.au by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA12366; Sun, 18 Jul 93 23:39:22 EDT Received: by ironbark.ucnv.edu.au id AA11479 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu); Mon, 19 Jul 1993 13:47:37 +1000 From: A Turner Message-Id: <199307190347.AA11479@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au> Subject: Q: Whats happening with MV 1.1? To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu (MUDL) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 13:47:36 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL5] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 518 Hi, I thought I would ask a few questions while things are slow... What is the current status of MV 1.1? Is the design finished/on hold? Has the coding begun (how is it progressing)? Is the project going to be parceled out for code development, etc? Who is actually doing the work at the moment? I am keen to contribute (things are slack at present for me) and I am curious as where to MV is at the moment. Thanks in advance for any info, Adrian Turner La Trobe University Bendigo turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au From turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au Sun Jul 18 23:50:43 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ironbark.ucnv.edu.au by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA12367; Sun, 18 Jul 93 23:50:43 EDT Received: by ironbark.ucnv.edu.au id AA11479 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu); Mon, 19 Jul 1993 13:47:37 +1000 From: A Turner Message-Id: <199307190347.AA11479@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au> Subject: Q: Whats happening with MV 1.1? To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu (MUDL) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 13:47:36 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL5] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 518 Hi, I thought I would ask a few questions while things are slow... What is the current status of MV 1.1? Is the design finished/on hold? Has the coding begun (how is it progressing)? Is the project going to be parceled out for code development, etc? Who is actually doing the work at the moment? I am keen to contribute (things are slack at present for me) and I am curious as where to MV is at the moment. Thanks in advance for any info, Adrian Turner La Trobe University Bendigo turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au From Stefan.Johansson@eua.ericsson.se Tue Jul 20 01:37:06 1993 Return-Path: Received: from mailgate.ericsson.se by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA14356; Tue, 20 Jul 93 01:37:06 EDT Received: from eua.ericsson.se by mailgate.ericsson.se (4.1/SMI-4.1-MAILGATE1.14) id AA12990; Tue, 20 Jul 93 07:45:43 +0200 Received: from ms.eua.ericsson.se by eua.ericsson.se (4.1/EUA-2.1) id AA25373; Tue, 20 Jul 93 07:45:42 +0200 Received: from euas65c40.eua.ericsson.se by ms.eua.ericsson.se (4.1/MS-2.1) id AA14544; Tue, 20 Jul 93 07:45:41 +0200 From: Stefan.Johansson@eua.ericsson.se (Stefan Johansson) Received: by euas65c40.eua.ericsson.se (4.1/client-1.3) id AA15405; Tue, 20 Jul 93 07:45:41 +0200 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 07:45:41 +0200 Message-Id: <9307200545.AA15405@euas65c40.eua.ericsson.se> To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: unsubscribe etxsons@etxu.eua.ericsson.se Thanx! From mpelzshe@man104-1.ucsd.edu Wed Jul 21 17:20:19 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ucsd.edu by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA18430; Wed, 21 Jul 93 17:20:19 EDT Received: from man104-1.ucsd.edu by ucsd.edu; id AA19051 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun via SMTP Wed, 21 Jul 93 00:06:42 -0700 for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Received: by man104-1.UCSD.EDU (NX5.67c/UCSDGENERIC.4) id AA25193 to multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu; Wed, 21 Jul 93 00:06:18 -0700 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 00:06:18 -0700 From: mpelzshe@man104-1.ucsd.edu (Michael Pelz-Sherman) Message-Id: <9307210706.AA25193@man104-1.UCSD.EDU> To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: DIVE Has anyone in this group checked out this stuff yet? ---------- MULTIG DISTRIBUTED INTERACTIVE VIRTUAL ENVIRONMENT Christer Carlsson | Email: cc@sics.se Swedish Institute of Computer Science | (or {mcvax,uunet}!sunic!sics!cc) Box 1263 | Tel: +46 8 752 1560 (or +46 8 752 1567) S-164 28 KISTA, SWEDEN | Fax: +46 8 751 7230 The MultiG Distributed Interactive Virtual Environment (DIVE) system v. 2.0 is now ready for public release. * WHAT IS DIVE? DIVE is a fully distributed heterogeneous VR system where users navigate in 3D space and may see, meet and interact with other users and applications in the environment. * INTRODUCTION TO DIVE The SICS Distributed Interactive Virtual Environment (Dive) is an experimental platform for development of televirtuality, user interfaces and applications based on shared 3D synthetic environments. By its distributed architecture, DIVE is especially tuned to multi-user applications, where several participants may interact even though they may be geographically dispersed. DIVE is a loosely coupled heterogeneous distributed system based on Unix and internet networking protocols within local and wide-area networks. Consistency and concurrency control of common data is achieved by active replication, reliable multicast protocols and distributed locking methods. The simplest model of DIVE is that of a memory shared over a network with a set of processes interacting by making concurrent accesses to the memory, and sending signals to objects and other processes. Objects may have a limited `behaviour' coupled to signals, essentially a state machine, which may effect the position, material, etc. of an object. A participant in a DIVE world is either a human user or an application process. Users navigate in 3D space and may see, meet and collaborate with other users and applications in the environment. A user is represented by a "body-icon", to facilitate the recognition and awareness of ongoing activities. Further, the body-icon may be used as a template on which the user's input devices are graphically modeled in 3D space. A user `sees' a world through a rendering application called a visualizer. A visualizer can be set up to accommodate a wide range of I/O devices such as an HMD, wands, datagloves, etc. Further, it reads the user's input devices and maps the physical actions taken by the user to logical actions in the DIVE system. This includes navigation in 3D space, clicking on objects and grabbing objects etc. In a typical DIVE world, a number of users leave and enter the world dynamically. Additionally, any number of non-human processes (applications) may exist within a world. Non-human processes typically control various applications, which, when started, build their user interfaces by creating and introducing necessary graphical objects. Thereafter, they `listen' to events in the world: when an events occurs, a non-human process may react according to some control logic. At this point, a multitude of applications to DIVE has been engineered. Some address how to map traditional 2D user interfaces into the 3D realm, others concentrate on multi user aspects, such as CSCW, in a virtual environment. * LICENSE The DIVE system is covered by a non commercial use licenses. The licenses are free. * HOW DO I GET DIVE? In order to keep track of licensees, DIVE is not directly available by anonymous ftp. ********************************************************************** *** To get a copy of DIVE, send an email to dive-request@sics.se *** *** including your name, email adress and surface mail adress. *** *** You will then recieve instructions on how to get DIVE via ftp. *** ********************************************************************** README files, ISIS (see below) and necessary gnu software is available via anonymous ftp from sics.se in pub/dive/. * MANUAL The DIVE distribution includes a 80 page technical manual, a 24 page turorial/user manual/installation guide and man pages for several applications. * BUGS Probably. Send bug reports to dive-bugs@sics.se * NOTE The software is a research prototype and is therefore provided on an `as is' basis with no provisions for support or future enhancements. -end- From @mitvma.mit.edu:WBWQC@cunyvm.cuny.edu Wed Jul 21 17:23:50 1993 Return-Path: <@mitvma.mit.edu:WBWQC@cunyvm.cuny.edu> Received: from lcs.mit.edu (MINTAKA.LCS.MIT.EDU) by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA18443; Wed, 21 Jul 93 17:23:50 EDT Received: from MITVMA.MIT.EDU by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa19410; 19 Jul 93 5:22 EDT Received: from MITVMA.MIT.EDU by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 3632; Mon, 19 Jul 93 05:14:59 EDT Received: from CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU by MITVMA.MIT.EDU (Mailer R2.10 ptf000) with BSMTP id 3827; Mon, 19 Jul 93 05:14:59 EDT Received: from CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (NJE origin WBWQC@CUNYVM) by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with RFC822 id 1780; Mon, 19 Jul 1993 05:13:42 -0400 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 04:19:10 EDT From: "wbwqc@cunyvm.cuny.edu" Subject: Re: What's happening with multiverse. To: mudl Message-Id: <9307190522.aa19410@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Regarding: ----Quoted message---- From: A Turner Message-Id: <199307190347.AA11479@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au> Subject: Q: Whats happening with MV 1.1? Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 13:47:36 +1000 (EST) What is the current status of MV 1.1? Is the design finished/on hold? Has the coding begun (how is it progressing)? Is the project going to be parceled out for code development, etc? Who is actually doing the work at the moment? I am keen to contribute (things are slack at present for me) and I am curious as where to MV is at the moment. ----End quoted messsage---- I'm also interested in contributing. Am installing xwindows on a Next, and Linux with xwindows on my 386-40, and am looking forward to working with MV. In addition to the previous articles, is there any documentation (manual) we could study to help us be better prepared? BTW, I have a 2D rendering of a 3D (XYZ) space simulation environment in LambdaMOO; it uses object-held location properties, not room-held. Collisions with earth, moon and sun are on test verbs (:earth_test, :moon_test, :sun_test), called by movement verbs(:engage); the distance between space objects is tested at each of their new moved locations within the space room. The space room has a list of object #s allowed within it. If 2 planets collided with each other (maybe in the future; they're orbiting now), the tested contact points would be part of either a circle or a circumference around one (spherical planet) or more(irregular shape, in the future)collision points on each object. One object's collision spheres (each sphere around one collision point) would touch or overlap each other on the object. I have one-sphere objects (earth, moon, sun) colliding with one-point vessels (ships, spacesuits) at this time. To have a large volume area in one 3D room (space), the object-held XYZ coordinate property design allows for several billion possible XYZ points. These in turn could be further "nested" w/ sub-XYZ properties, to allow for finer or more "human" scale areas (cubes within cubes); such could save math processing time: process/test small/slow object collisions within a sub-cube, and process/test fast/large/largewithsmall object collisions within a larger cube. Please note that I'm not suggesting these concepts be implemented in MV; these are just ideas some readers might find interesting, and might like to implement in their world-building. If anyone wants to visit the space area in LambdaMOO, please feel free to drop by at (telnet) 13.2.116.36 8888 (lambda.parc.xerox.com 8888) It starts in the VR machine in the west underground arcade. I'll gladly give guided tours (page wbw), when i'm there. Be seeing you. wbw@LambdaMOO wbwqc@cunyvm.cuny.edu wbwqc@cunyvm.bitnet From koopman@sgi84.ctc.com Wed Jul 21 19:06:22 1993 Return-Path: Received: from server1.ctc.com by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA18641; Wed, 21 Jul 93 19:06:22 EDT Received: by server1.ctc.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA08966; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 19:15:24 -0400 Received: by sgi84.ctc.com (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for @server1.ctc.com:multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu id AA26256; Wed, 21 Jul 93 19:15:22 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 19:15:22 -0400 From: koopman@sgi84.ctc.com (Michael G. Koopman) Message-Id: <9307212315.AA26256@sgi84.ctc.com> To: mpelzshe@man104-1.ucsd.edu Cc: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu In-Reply-To: Michael Pelz-Sherman's message of Wed, 21 Jul 93 00:06:18 -0700 <9307210706.AA25193@man104-1.UCSD.EDU> Subject: DIVE Reply-To: koopman@ctc.com Michael Pelz-Sherman eloquently writes: > Has anyone in this group checked out this stuff yet? > ---------- > > MULTIG DISTRIBUTED INTERACTIVE VIRTUAL ENVIRONMENT > > Christer Carlsson | Email: cc@sics.se > Swedish Institute of Computer Science | (or {mcvax,uunet}!sunic!sics!cc) > Box 1263 | Tel: +46 8 752 1560 (or +46 8 752 1567) > S-164 28 KISTA, SWEDEN | Fax: +46 8 751 7230 > > The MultiG Distributed Interactive Virtual Environment (DIVE) system > v. 2.0 is now ready for public release. > > * WHAT IS DIVE? > > DIVE is a fully distributed heterogeneous VR system where users navigate in 3D > space and may see, meet and interact with other users and applications in > the environment. ----- Stuff deleted ----- CTC (the non-profit corporation from whence this e-mail originates) has licensed and is testing DIVE on some of these here SGI's. It's definitely cool, and the price is recently competitive with MV ($0.00) However, I don't want to discourage MV user's from continuing work. Neither do I expect a shared interactive interface is desired. It makes sense to consider "object" translators to encourge MV/DIVE virtual environment information exchange (when the MV object development takes on a definite course, that is ;-). But the system designs are probably more diverse than to allow "melding" through a simple shared network protocol development, for example. DIVE is rather strongly oriented towards UNIX workstation type machines with special equipment drivers (HMD, flying mouse, etc.) and is less "pure" X11. MV seems to encourage PC's with common configurations and X11. Even with the "cheap PC" and "bogus X" orientation *(see below), MV seems to provide better texturing and more flexible rendering support, imagine that. I am *not* informed enough to offer a strong critique on the public domain ISIS system. However, ISIS is in the core of the DIVE distributed application. If DIVE can lend anything to MV developments the ISIS system might be it. ----------- * ok, ok, PC's may not be cheap and the X standard may not be bogus ;-) Mike From turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au Fri Jul 30 03:07:58 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ironbark.ucnv.edu.au ([149.144.2.60]) by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA01426; Fri, 30 Jul 93 03:07:58 EDT Received: by ironbark.ucnv.edu.au id AA16129 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu); Fri, 30 Jul 1993 17:17:08 +1000 From: A Turner Message-Id: <199307300717.AA16129@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au> Subject: MISC: Mouse selection & TEXT To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu (MUDL) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1993 17:17:08 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 648 Hi, Just a few questions. Has anyone developed functions to select an object in the world with the mouse? ie. take the X,Y co-ords of the mouse pointer and return the pointer to the nearest object at that location. I am also interested in sending text messages to the clients that will overlay the graphics (not the panel). Would this be feasible? Or is it a silly idea that would slow rendering speed? Would drawing the text each frame (a few hundred characters+) be faster that overlaying a separate bitmap with the text predrawn? All ideas/comments are welcome. Adrian Turner La Trobe University Bendigo turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au From turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au Fri Jul 30 03:13:37 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ironbark.ucnv.edu.au by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA01427; Fri, 30 Jul 93 03:13:37 EDT Received: by ironbark.ucnv.edu.au id AA16129 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu); Fri, 30 Jul 1993 17:17:08 +1000 From: A Turner Message-Id: <199307300717.AA16129@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au> Subject: MISC: Mouse selection & TEXT To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu (MUDL) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1993 17:17:08 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 648 Hi, Just a few questions. Has anyone developed functions to select an object in the world with the mouse? ie. take the X,Y co-ords of the mouse pointer and return the pointer to the nearest object at that location. I am also interested in sending text messages to the clients that will overlay the graphics (not the panel). Would this be feasible? Or is it a silly idea that would slow rendering speed? Would drawing the text each frame (a few hundred characters+) be faster that overlaying a separate bitmap with the text predrawn? All ideas/comments are welcome. Adrian Turner La Trobe University Bendigo turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au From dcw3@tower.york.ac.uk Fri Jul 30 11:07:43 1993 Return-Path: Received: from leeman.york.ac.uk by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA01875; Fri, 30 Jul 93 11:07:43 EDT Received: from tower.york.ac.uk by leeman.york.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <06528-0@leeman.york.ac.uk>; Fri, 30 Jul 1993 16:17:45 +0100 Received: by tower.york.ac.uk (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for @leeman.york.ac.uk:multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu id AA11359; Fri, 30 Jul 93 16:17:01 +0100 From: dcw3@tower.york.ac.uk (DC Watson) Message-Id: <9307301517.AA11359@tower.york.ac.uk> Subject: An idea... To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Date: Fri, 30 Jul 93 16:17:00 BST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Well after helping some ppl get multiverse up and going on their SGI`s, i got to thinking about setting up networked servers running multiverse worlds/games/enviroments or whatever and making them available to anyone with the equipment needed to run a client. We could maybe set up a bulletin board at the same site (i`ve got one from the univ of washington compsci ppl) with sections for ideas, critisicm, problems etc for each server running. A Multiverse BBS anyone? Anyway, i started designing a simple game set in an large arena, bounded by walls with various objects in it as 'cover'. Each player had a kind of hover tank (much like the ancient game tank attack!) that they could drive around and shoot other players in (a bit like dogfight, but with only a flat 2D world instead of space). I was going to add more vehicles so that each player had a choice of big, slow and deadly to little, fast and weak to make things more interesting etc... I then started thinking what would make a game more playable and get ppl coming back to it for a long time. Shooting one or two oppentents gets a bit dull after a while! Does anyone remember the 80's game ELITE? There is also a PD version called Galactic Trader that runs on vaxes and unix machines and is text based, often running at universities like a mud... I was wondering, would anyone be interested in trying to code a multiplayer, graphical version? (shouldn`t be too hard, the origional was 28K and ran on a BBC, Commadore Vic 20 or Sinclair Spectrum 48K here in England!) The basic idea is that you start of with a small amount of money, a basic space ship and set out to make your fortune by a combination of trading between space stations in orbit around planets, piracy, bounty hunting, asteriod mining etc. As you get more money, you can buy better ships, equipment, cargo etc and you get a rating to how accomplished you are - from harmless to Elite. Each space system could be a seperate multiverse world, or maybe not. People could even design their own worlds and place them (via a internet connection) at a planet or space station, so people could stop and investigate them! It would be could to be able to display text and have some kind of messaging system betweem players to. I can probably get hold of the code (in C) for gal trader, so i wouldn`t be too hard to hack that for most of the game mechanics (trading, encounters, prices, communication etc). All that we would have to do is the client/server, object design and integration with the old code. Sounds too easy! ;-) Anyway, its just an idea. Since there are lots of ppl now with multiverse up and running, how about letting everyone else see what you have been doing? If anyone has a server that they can run, could they post the address and port number? Does anyone want to have a go building a server for others to try out? Well thats my ramble over (for now), David ;-) From mpelzshe@man104-1.ucsd.edu Fri Jul 30 16:00:37 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ucsd.edu by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA02372; Fri, 30 Jul 93 16:00:37 EDT Received: from man104-1.ucsd.edu by ucsd.edu; id AA18363 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun via SMTP Fri, 30 Jul 93 13:10:03 -0700 for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Received: from man104-2.ucsd.edu by man104-1.UCSD.EDU (NX5.67c/UCSDGENERIC.4) id AA05852 to multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu; Fri, 30 Jul 93 13:09:49 -0700 Message-Id: <9307302009.AA05852@man104-1.UCSD.EDU> Received: by man104-2.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU (NX5.67c/NeXT-2.0a) id AA08395; Fri, 30 Jul 93 13:10:00 -0800 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 93 13:10:00 -0800 From: mpelzshe@man104-1.ucsd.edu To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Long-distance play In response to DC Watson's message, I thought you all should know that long-distance (as in trans-continental) play with MV 1.0.2 is currently not viable. Shane McEwan and I tried it as an experiment - I was in Canada and he in Australia, and the net lag was so extreme as to render the system completely unuseable (we're talking 1 minute plus between screen updates!). I don't mean to disourage anyone from trying - maybe this was just a particularly slow connection. Anyone else tried this with a bit less distance? -Michael From spm@atmos.dar.csiro.au Sun Aug 1 20:15:42 1993 Return-Path: Received: from atmos.dar.csiro.au by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA04615; Sun, 1 Aug 93 20:15:42 EDT Received: by atmos.dar.csiro.au (920330.SGI/921111.SGI-930104.DAR) for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu id AA19247; Mon, 2 Aug 93 10:24:50 +1000 Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 09:55:04 +1200 (EST) From: Shane McEwan Subject: Re: An idea... To: DC Watson Cc: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <9307301517.AA11359@tower.york.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 30 Jul 1993, DC Watson wrote: > Well after helping some ppl get multiverse up and going on their SGI`s, > i got to thinking about setting up networked servers running multiverse > worlds/games/enviroments or whatever and making them available to anyone > with the equipment needed to run a client. We could maybe set up a > bulletin board at the same site (i`ve got one from the univ of > washington compsci ppl) with sections for ideas, critisicm, problems etc > for each server running. A Multiverse BBS anyone? I like the idea of a graphical BBS running with Multiverse......but a separate text BBS probably wouldn't be necessary.......the newsgroup (if it ever happens) will be the best place for problems, etc. > Anyway, i started designing a simple game set in an large arena, bounded > by walls with various objects in it as 'cover'. Each player had a kind > of hover tank (much like the ancient game tank attack!) that they could > drive around and shoot other players in (a bit like dogfight, but with > only a flat 2D world instead of space). I was going to add more vehicles > so that each player had a choice of big, slow and deadly to little, fast > and weak to make things more interesting etc... Urgh! Sounds like XTank! > I then started thinking what would make a game more playable and get ppl > coming back to it for a long time. Shooting one or two oppentents gets a > bit dull after a while! > Does anyone remember the 80's game ELITE? There is also a PD version > called Galactic Trader that runs on vaxes and unix machines and is text > based, often running at universities like a mud... > I was wondering, would anyone be interested in trying to code a > multiplayer, graphical version? > (shouldn`t be too hard, the origional was 28K and ran on a BBC, > Commadore Vic 20 or Sinclair Spectrum 48K here in England!) I'm game......where can I get the code from? I've been looking for it for ages! > The basic idea is that you start of with a small amount of money, a > basic space ship and set out to make your fortune by a combination of > trading between space stations in orbit around planets, piracy, bounty > hunting, asteriod mining etc. As you get more money, you can buy better > ships, equipment, cargo etc and you get a rating to how accomplished you > are - from harmless to Elite. There is also a BBS 'door' of this program on PC's. It's called Galactic Trader 2000 or something. I used to spend hours playing it. I've never seen a graphical version, though. But it would be something that Multiverse would be especially suited.........if we could get text. > Each space system could be a seperate multiverse world, or maybe not. > People could even design their own worlds and place them (via a internet > connection) at a planet or space station, so people could stop and > investigate them! Or conquer them....*evil grin* > It would be could to be able to display text and have some kind of > messaging system betweem players to. I can probably get hold of the code > (in C) for gal trader, so i wouldn`t be too hard to hack that for most > of the game mechanics (trading, encounters, prices, communication etc). > All that we would have to do is the client/server, object design and > integration with the old code. > Sounds too easy! > ;-) It would be cool. I don't think the current version of Multiverse is suited for this application though. I'd hate to invest a lot of time and effort into this if the next version of Multiverse is gonna break it. > Anyway, its just an idea. Since there are lots of ppl now with > multiverse up and running, how about letting everyone else see what you > have been doing? > If anyone has a server that they can run, could they post the address > and port number? As Michael has already said, things are very slow over the net. A _LOT_ more work needs to be done on the protocol. > Does anyone want to have a go building a server for others to try out? I'm holding out on building anything until we get a stable definition on how the worlds are gonna work. Robert: What's the status of the next version and the newsgroup? Things have kind of died here. If we ever get to the voting stage for the newsgroup don't forget to post something here about it. I don't get to read sci.virtual-worlds as often as I'd like and I'd hate to miss my chance to vote. *sigh* Shane McEwan CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research spm@dar.csiro.au ================================================================================ Lister: We want no muffins, no toast, no tea cakes, no buns, baps, baguettes, or bagels. No croissants, no crumpets, no pancakes, no potato cakes, and no hot cross buns. And definitely no smegging flapjacks! Toaster: Ahhhhhh! So you're a waffle man! ================================================================================ Aspendale, Victoria, Australia 3195 Phone: +61 3 586 7503 Fax: +61 3 586 7600 From js@bison.lif.icnet.uk Mon Aug 2 06:21:49 1993 Return-Path: Received: from bison.lif.icnet.uk by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA05206; Mon, 2 Aug 93 06:21:49 EDT Message-Id: <9308021021.AA05206@MEDG.lcs.mit.edu> Received: from calvin.lif.icnet.uk.biu by bison.lif.icnet.uk; Mon, 2 Aug 93 11:34:00 BST Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 11:34:00 BST From: js@bison.lif.icnet.uk (Jack Shirazi - BIU) Sender: js@bison.lif.icnet.uk To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Re: Long-distance play > From mpelzshe@man104-1.ucsd.edu Fri Jul 30 21:41:41 1993 > In response to DC Watson's message, I thought you all should know that > long-distance (as in trans-continental) play with MV 1.0.2 is > currently not viable. Shane McEwan and I tried it as an > experiment - I was in Canada and he in Australia, and the net lag > was so extreme as to render the system completely unuseable (we're > talking 1 minute plus between screen updates!). I don't mean to > disourage anyone from trying - maybe this was just a particularly > slow connection. Anyone else tried this with a bit less distance? Clearly this is one thing that will have to be addressed generally in this sort of system. There will always be a lag, and it will be dependent on distance, physical bottlenecks in the connection and the load between the connections. Even as simple a game as netrek rapidly becomes unplayable at even one second delays in the connections, and we are talking about a potentially much more sophisticated system. I have no answer to the problems, unfortuantely. If networks switch to asynchronous transfer mode (as is likely witin 10 years) then the problem will become almost entirely one of distance only, and the only solutions then are to either put up with the lag or to create a local agent for yourself to do the things you want in real-time, and just give general instructions as you can (actually this would be an option now come to think about it). From jensk@hpbeo82.bbn.hp.com Mon Aug 2 08:13:02 1993 Return-Path: Received: from hp.com by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA05290; Mon, 2 Aug 93 08:13:02 EDT Received: from hpbbn.bbn.hp.com by hp.com with SMTP (16.8/15.5+IOS 3.13) id AA18955; Mon, 2 Aug 93 05:22:39 -0700 Received: from hpbeo82.bbn.hp.com by hpbbn.bbn.hp.com with SMTP (16.6/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA11302; Mon, 2 Aug 93 13:15:34 +0100 Received: by hpbeo82.bbn.hp.com (1.37.109.4/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA15259; Mon, 2 Aug 93 14:22:37 +0200 From: Jens Kilian Message-Id: <9308021222.AA15259@hpbeo82.bbn.hp.com> Subject: Please unsubscribe me from the Multiverse mailing list To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Date: Mon, 2 Aug 93 14:22:36 MESZ Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sorry about the wasted bandwidth, but "multiverse-request" still doesn't seem to exist. Thanks, Jens. -- Internet: jensk@hpbbn.bbn.hp.com | Phone: (0|+49)7031-14-4785 (TELNET 778-4785) MausNet: Jens Kilian @ BB | Fax : (0|+49)7031-14-2049 ---------------------------------+--------------------------------------------- As the air to a bird, or the sea to a fish, so is contempt to the contemptible. From turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au Sun Aug 15 23:44:10 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ironbark.ucnv.edu.au ([149.144.20.60]) by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA27622; Sun, 15 Aug 93 23:44:10 EDT Received: from localhost (turner@localhost) by ironbark.ucnv.edu.au (8.5/8.5) id NAA12916; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 13:54:10 +1000 From: A Turner Message-Id: <199308160354.NAA12916@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au> Subject: MISC: DOCUMENTATION? To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu (MUDL) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1993 13:54:09 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 445 Hello, Is there any documentation apart from that provided with mv? Has anyone bothered to document the data structures and functions for 1.0.2 or is everyone hanging out for 1.1? If anyone has any docs at all I would be very interested. Thanks in advance, Adrian. ------- Adrian Turner turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au (or turner@redgum.ucnv.edu.au) Dept. Computing & Information Science, La Trobe UCNV, Bendigo, Victoria, Australia 3550 From turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au Sun Aug 15 23:45:43 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ironbark.ucnv.edu.au by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA27623; Sun, 15 Aug 93 23:45:43 EDT Received: from localhost (turner@localhost) by ironbark.ucnv.edu.au (8.5/8.5) id NAA12916; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 13:54:10 +1000 From: A Turner Message-Id: <199308160354.NAA12916@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au> Subject: MISC: DOCUMENTATION? To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu (MUDL) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1993 13:54:09 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 445 Hello, Is there any documentation apart from that provided with mv? Has anyone bothered to document the data structures and functions for 1.0.2 or is everyone hanging out for 1.1? If anyone has any docs at all I would be very interested. Thanks in advance, Adrian. ------- Adrian Turner turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au (or turner@redgum.ucnv.edu.au) Dept. Computing & Information Science, La Trobe UCNV, Bendigo, Victoria, Australia 3550 From spm@atmos.dar.csiro.au Mon Aug 16 01:05:39 1993 Return-Path: Received: from atmos.dar.CSIRO.AU by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA27667; Mon, 16 Aug 93 01:05:39 EDT Received: by atmos.dar.CSIRO.AU (920330.SGI/921111.SGI-930104.DAR) for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu id AA12346; Mon, 16 Aug 93 15:15:52 +1000 Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1993 15:12:00 +1200 (EST) From: Shane McEwan Subject: Re: MISC: DOCUMENTATION? To: A Turner Cc: MUDL In-Reply-To: <199308160354.NAA12916@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 16 Aug 1993, A Turner wrote: > Hello, > > Is there any documentation apart from that provided with mv? Has anyone > bothered to document the data structures and functions for 1.0.2 or is everyone hanging > out for 1.1? If anyone has any docs at all I would be very interested. There is some minimal documentation bundled with version 1.1 sitting on the Multiverse ftp archives. They probably would apply to 1.0.2....but don't take my word for it. Shane McEwan CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research spm@dar.csiro.au ================================================================================ "The Committee for the Liberation and Integration of Terrifying Organisms and their Rehabilitation Into Society (CLITORIS)" - _Red Dwarf_ "Polymorph" ================================================================================ Aspendale, Victoria, Australia 3195 Phone: +61 3 586 7503 Fax: +61 3 586 7600 From MAILER-DAEMON@medg.lcs.mit.edu Mon Aug 23 11:48:57 1993 Return-Path: Received: from leeman.york.ac.uk by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA01746; Mon, 23 Aug 93 11:48:57 EDT Received: from tower.york.ac.uk by leeman.york.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <23822-0@leeman.york.ac.uk>; Mon, 23 Aug 1993 16:16:25 +0100 Received: from medg.lcs.mit.edu by tower.york.ac.uk via UUCP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for @leeman.york.ac.uk:multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu id AA14528; Mon, 23 Aug 93 16:18:34 +0100 Received: from leeman.york.ac.uk by tower.york.ac.uk via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for dcw3 id AA13305; Fri, 30 Jul 93 17:11:21 +0100 Received: from MEDG.LCS.MIT.EDU by leeman.york.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <06854-0@leeman.york.ac.uk>; Fri, 30 Jul 1993 17:11:48 +0100 Received: by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AB01882; Fri, 30 Jul 93 11:07:43 EDT Date: Fri, 30 Jul 93 11:07:43 EDT From: MAILER-DAEMON@medg.lcs.mit.edu (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <9307301507.AB01882@MEDG.lcs.mit.edu> To: dcw3 Status: RO ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Connected to caticsuf.csufresno.edu: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 tvreece@caticsuf.CSUFresno.EDU... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: Received: from leeman.york.ac.uk by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA01875; Fri, 30 Jul 93 11:07:43 EDT Received: from tower.york.ac.uk by leeman.york.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <06528-0@leeman.york.ac.uk>; Fri, 30 Jul 1993 16:17:45 +0100 Received: by tower.york.ac.uk (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for @leeman.york.ac.uk:multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu id AA11359; Fri, 30 Jul 93 16:17:01 +0100 From: dcw3@tower.york.ac.uk (DC Watson) Message-Id: <9307301517.AA11359@tower.york.ac.uk> Subject: An idea... To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Date: Fri, 30 Jul 93 16:17:00 BST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Well after helping some ppl get multiverse up and going on their SGI`s, i got to thinking about setting up networked servers running multiverse worlds/games/enviroments or whatever and making them available to anyone with the equipment needed to run a client. We could maybe set up a bulletin board at the same site (i`ve got one from the univ of washington compsci ppl) with sections for ideas, critisicm, problems etc for each server running. A Multiverse BBS anyone? Anyway, i started designing a simple game set in an large arena, bounded by walls with various objects in it as 'cover'. Each player had a kind of hover tank (much like the ancient game tank attack!) that they could drive around and shoot other players in (a bit like dogfight, but with only a flat 2D world instead of space). I was going to add more vehicles so that each player had a choice of big, slow and deadly to little, fast and weak to make things more interesting etc... I then started thinking what would make a game more playable and get ppl coming back to it for a long time. Shooting one or two oppentents gets a bit dull after a while! Does anyone remember the 80's game ELITE? There is also a PD version called Galactic Trader that runs on vaxes and unix machines and is text based, often running at universities like a mud... I was wondering, would anyone be interested in trying to code a multiplayer, graphical version? (shouldn`t be too hard, the origional was 28K and ran on a BBC, Commadore Vic 20 or Sinclair Spectrum 48K here in England!) The basic idea is that you start of with a small amount of money, a basic space ship and set out to make your fortune by a combination of trading between space stations in orbit around planets, piracy, bounty hunting, asteriod mining etc. As you get more money, you can buy better ships, equipment, cargo etc and you get a rating to how accomplished you are - from harmless to Elite. Each space system could be a seperate multiverse world, or maybe not. People could even design their own worlds and place them (via a internet connection) at a planet or space station, so people could stop and investigate them! It would be could to be able to display text and have some kind of messaging system betweem players to. I can probably get hold of the code (in C) for gal trader, so i wouldn`t be too hard to hack that for most of the game mechanics (trading, encounters, prices, communication etc). All that we would have to do is the client/server, object design and integration with the old code. Sounds too easy! ;-) Anyway, its just an idea. Since there are lots of ppl now with multiverse up and running, how about letting everyone else see what you have been doing? If anyone has a server that they can run, could they post the address and port number? Does anyone want to have a go building a server for others to try out? Well thats my ramble over (for now), David ;-) From r1g@sapphire.gasco.com Mon Aug 23 12:59:01 1993 Return-Path: Received: from gasco.com by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA01858; Mon, 23 Aug 93 12:59:01 EDT Received: by gasco.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.4) id ; Mon, 23 Aug 93 10:09 PDT Received: by gasco.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.3) id ; Mon, 23 Aug 93 10:09 PDT Received: from amber.nis.nwgas by sapphire.gasco.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28465; Mon, 23 Aug 93 10:12:12 PDT Date: Mon, 23 Aug 93 10:12:12 PDT From: r1g@sapphire.gasco.com (Robert Grant) Message-Id: <9308231712.AA28465@sapphire.gasco.com> To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Update X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Hi everyone, This is me, Robert, letting everyone know what's been happening.... I tried to send out a mailnote to let everyone know, on the list, what was happening with me, but it seems it never got to the list :-( So here I am. As some of you may have gathered, I've changed jobs. I've left Xerox and grungy L.A. and moved up the coast to glorious Portland, OR. and a new job....the Internet connection was a bit dodgy for a while which is why I've been incommunicado - but now.... Anyway, my schedule has changed quite a bit as you can probably imagine - and I don't have as much time as I used to for development - but that could change....?! I am hoping to be able to fix up some stuff and get things moving along again. Version 1.1 has been languishing out on the net for a while with nothing much happening - which is unfortunate, because I know a number of you have been looking forward to its extended functionality. There has also been a lot of discussion about future enhancements and I hope that these can be developed...but...;-) Anyway, I just wanted to let everyone know I'm still around - and that, once I get settled in at my new job - which unfortunately has nothing to do with VR (I timed out on VR companies offering lucrative employment for the time being! :-() - I'll be able to continue on with enhancing Multiverse.. Talk to you later... Robert. r1g@gasco.com From turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au Tue Aug 24 04:17:39 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ironbark.ucnv.edu.au by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA02992; Tue, 24 Aug 93 04:17:39 EDT Received: from localhost (turner@localhost) by ironbark.ucnv.edu.au (8.5/8.5) id SAA17892; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 18:27:45 +1000 From: A Turner Message-Id: <199308240827.SAA17892@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au> Subject: DSGN: object detail at distance To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu (MUDL) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 18:27:44 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 832 Hi, I have looked at a few VR programs for the PC (notably Rend386) and have noticed that an object may have differing representations which will be rendered depending on the distance of the object from the camera. Should MV provide this sort of capability? i.e if distance to obj > x, don't render (in addition to the yon clipping plane) if x > dist > y, use (simple) definition A to render, if dist < y, use def B (complex). Optional for each object of course. This is just an idea without much thought for problems or added complexity to MV. However I would be interested in hearing any pro's and con's for having MV do this. Adrian ------------- Adrian Turner turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au (or turner@redgum.ucnv.edu.au) Dept. Computing & Information Science, La Trobe UCNV, Bendigo, Victoria, Australia 3550 From turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au Tue Aug 24 04:18:09 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ironbark.ucnv.edu.au by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA02994; Tue, 24 Aug 93 04:18:09 EDT Received: from localhost (turner@localhost) by ironbark.ucnv.edu.au (8.5/8.5) id SAA17892; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 18:27:45 +1000 From: A Turner Message-Id: <199308240827.SAA17892@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au> Subject: DSGN: object detail at distance To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu (MUDL) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 18:27:44 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 832 Hi, I have looked at a few VR programs for the PC (notably Rend386) and have noticed that an object may have differing representations which will be rendered depending on the distance of the object from the camera. Should MV provide this sort of capability? i.e if distance to obj > x, don't render (in addition to the yon clipping plane) if x > dist > y, use (simple) definition A to render, if dist < y, use def B (complex). Optional for each object of course. This is just an idea without much thought for problems or added complexity to MV. However I would be interested in hearing any pro's and con's for having MV do this. Adrian ------------- Adrian Turner turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au (or turner@redgum.ucnv.edu.au) Dept. Computing & Information Science, La Trobe UCNV, Bendigo, Victoria, Australia 3550 From dkatz@artorg.hmc.psu.edu Tue Aug 24 08:34:20 1993 Received: from ernie.artorg.hmc.psu.edu by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA03140; Tue, 24 Aug 93 08:34:20 EDT Return-Path: Received: from clyde.artorg.hmc.psu.edu by ernie.artorg.hmc.psu.edu (4.1/1.34) id AA10721; Tue, 24 Aug 93 08:45:17 EDT Received: by clyde.artorg.hmc.psu.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27594; Tue, 24 Aug 93 08:40:23 EDT Date: Tue, 24 Aug 93 08:40:23 EDT From: dkatz@artorg.hmc.psu.edu (David N. Katz) Message-Id: <9308241240.AA27594@clyde.artorg.hmc.psu.edu> To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: request REQUEST INFO Dkatz@hmc.psu.edu From peb@procase.com Tue Aug 24 15:33:01 1993 Return-Path: Received: from procase.procase.com by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA04582; Tue, 24 Aug 93 15:33:01 EDT Received: from banff (banff.procase.com) by procase.procase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/PROCASE-main_cf-930408-2) id AA22402; Tue, 24 Aug 93 12:42:57 PDT From: peb@procase.com (Paul Baclace) Received: by banff (4.1/SMI-4.1/PROCASE-Brent-Subsidiary-SunOS-930408-1) id AA05470; Tue, 24 Aug 93 12:42:55 PDT Date: Tue, 24 Aug 93 12:42:55 PDT Message-Id: <9308241942.AA05470@banff.procase.com> To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu, turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au Subject: Re: DSGN: object detail at distance : if distance to obj > x, don't render (in addition to the yon clipping plane) : if x > dist > y, use (simple) definition A to render, : if dist < y, use def B (complex). This is standard stuff in flight simulators. In fact, I tried out a F15 air combat simulator at E&S early this year and they had 3 projectors in the sphere: one for background, one for your average foveal location and one for very distant, high resolution pictures. The projectors tracked the helmet. Obviously this kind of electromechanical projection system is special purpose, but the breakdown of projection between the non-background projectors is quite similar. Also, their flight database had trees pop up when close enough. Sense8's WTK and Autodesk's CDK both support multiple views depending on distance too. Paul E. Baclace peb@procase.com From i-bds@microsoft.com Wed Aug 25 13:09:48 1993 Return-Path: Received: from netmail.microsoft.com by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA06550; Wed, 25 Aug 93 13:09:48 EDT Received: by netmail.microsoft.com (5.65/25-eef) id AA13238; Wed, 25 Aug 93 10:19:46 -0700 Message-Id: <9308251719.AA13238@netmail.microsoft.com> X-Msmail-Message-Id: 9B45584E X-Msmail-Conversation-Id: 9B45584E From: David Shoemaker (B.E.S.T.) To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Date: Wed, 25 Aug 93 09:43:33 PDT Subject: Minimum hardware setup Hello all, I am getting ready to setup MV on Linux. I have: 486-33 VLB Cirrus Logic 5426 2meg LB video 8Meg ram 380 Meg RLL harddrive (DOS) DTC 3280 SCSI controller 210 Meg SCSI harddrive ( for Linux) Chinon 535 CDRom I haven't setup the Linux yet and am wondering if there is anything special I need to know or do when I put it on. I know I need to install X but have heard that 8Meg ram is not enough. But with the current ram $ I just can't get any more :(. Also does anyone know how well I can configure the Cirrus card for the X and MV. Finally can anyone recommend a good (and cheap ;-) place to get a distribution for the latest Linux and MV on CDRom? Thanks, David From spm@atmos.dar.csiro.au Wed Aug 25 19:17:21 1993 Return-Path: Received: from atmos.dar.CSIRO.AU by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA07694; Wed, 25 Aug 93 19:17:21 EDT Received: by atmos.dar.CSIRO.AU (920330.SGI/921111.SGI-930104.DAR) for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu id AA22303; Thu, 26 Aug 93 09:28:11 +1000 Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 09:23:22 +1200 (EST) From: Shane McEwan Subject: Re: Minimum hardware setup To: David Shoemaker Cc: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <9308251719.AA13238@netmail.microsoft.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 25 Aug 1993, David Shoemaker wrote: > I haven't setup the Linux yet and am wondering if there is anything > special I need to know or do when I put it on. I know I need to > install X but have heard that 8Meg ram is not enough. But with the > current ram $ I just can't get any more :(. 8MB is plenty for X. I run X at home with 8MB with no problems. > Also does anyone know how well I can configure the Cirrus card for the > X and MV. There could be problems with that. I can't remember what cards a supported but I know the S3 VLB cards have big problems with X. I'm not sure what chipset your Cirrus card supports. > Finally can anyone recommend a good (and cheap ;-) place to get a > distribution for the latest Linux and MV on CDRom? You can get Ygdrasyll (sp?) , SLS and Slackware versions on CDROM. They're pretty cheap. You'll still have to get MV off the net, though. -- Shane McEwan CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research spm@dar.csiro.au ================================================================================ DO NOT TAUNT HAPPY FUN BALL! ================================================================================ Aspendale, Victoria, Australia 3195 Phone: +61 3 586 7503 Fax: +61 3 586 7600 From jeffw@indirect.com Wed Aug 25 23:41:39 1993 Return-Path: Received: from indirect.com by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA08025; Wed, 25 Aug 93 23:41:39 EDT Received: by indirect.com id AA12969 (5.65c/BP2.0-IDA-1.4.4 for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu); Wed, 25 Aug 1993 20:50:51 -0700 From: Jeffrey Wheelhouse Message-Id: <199308260350.AA12969@indirect.com> Subject: Re: Minimum hardware setup (fwd) To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Date: Wed, 25 Aug 93 20:50:49 MST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Shane McEwan had this to say: > > Also does anyone know how well I can configure the Cirrus card for the > > X and MV. > > There could be problems with that. I can't remember what cards a supported > but I know the S3 VLB cards have big problems with X. I'm not sure what > chipset your Cirrus card supports. Cirrus _is_ the chipset. I ran a Cirrus GD5426 back when I thought running Unix on a PC was a good idea. It worked with X, but had some problems with text restore. > > Finally can anyone recommend a good (and cheap ;-) place to get a > > distribution for the latest Linux and MV on CDRom? > > You can get Ygdrasyll (sp?) , SLS and Slackware versions on CDROM. > They're pretty cheap. You'll still have to get MV off the net, though. If anyone needs a tape of multiverse, I'll be happy to help. I can make/use SCSI 150mb (the big ones) or 8mm DAT. -- === Jeffrey D. Wheelhouse ============================== jeffw@indirect.com === "J'uk, ydtruz-t'rud-eztuza, hudr'zd dezek drez'huk, huzukruk't b'tduz g'ke'k me'ek b'tduzt' be'tk kce'drutk ke'hkt'd. aaDb'thuk?" - Carrot =============================================================================== From dcw3@tower.york.ac.uk Thu Aug 26 19:26:49 1993 Return-Path: Received: from leeman.york.ac.uk by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA09422; Thu, 26 Aug 93 19:26:49 EDT Received: from sgi4.york.ac.uk by leeman.york.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <20176-0@leeman.york.ac.uk>; Thu, 26 Aug 1993 22:28:28 +0100 Received: by sgi4.york.ac.uk (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for @leeman.york.ac.uk:multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu id AA06541; Thu, 26 Aug 93 22:31:01 +0100 From: dcw3@tower.york.ac.uk (DC Watson) Message-Id: <9308262131.AA06541@sgi4.york.ac.uk> Subject: Linux ports... To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Date: Thu, 26 Aug 93 22:31:00 BST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Hi! I`ve got a Dell 486sx25 or 486dx33 with 1Mb local bus graphics, 4Mb ram, etc... What do i need to run multiverse under Linux? Assuming i can, would anybody care to send me a guide to getting Linux via FTP, installing it an running Multiverse? Thanks! Also, can anyone recommend a good raytracing package available via FTP for the PC and a SGI machine (needn`t be the same package) Thanks again, David ;-) From spm@atmos.dar.csiro.au Thu Aug 26 20:25:50 1993 Return-Path: Received: from atmos.dar.CSIRO.AU by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA09498; Thu, 26 Aug 93 20:25:50 EDT Received: by atmos.dar.CSIRO.AU (920330.SGI/921111.SGI-930104.DAR) for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu id AA18418; Fri, 27 Aug 93 10:37:06 +1000 Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 10:26:56 +1200 (EST) From: Shane McEwan Subject: Re: Linux ports... To: DC Watson Cc: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <9308262131.AA06541@sgi4.york.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 26 Aug 1993, DC Watson wrote: > Hi! G'day! > I`ve got a Dell 486sx25 or 486dx33 with 1Mb local bus graphics, 4Mb ram, > etc... What do i need to run multiverse under Linux? You'd need another 4MB to run X. You can run X with 4MB but it's slow. 8MB is better. 16MB is fantastic! > Assuming i can, would anybody care to send me a guide to getting Linux > via FTP, installing it an running Multiverse? Get the SLS version of Linux. You can get it from: tsx-11.mit.edu 18.172.1.2 /pub/linux sunsite.unc.edu 152.2.22.81 /pub/Linux nic.funet.fi 128.214.6.100 /pub/OS/Linux As well as a lot of other places. There are various README files on these machine that will tell you how to install it. > Also, can anyone recommend a good raytracing package available via FTP > for the PC and a SGI machine (needn`t be the same package) I've heard POV (Persistance of Vision?) is quite good. I haven't used it myself. It's available for most platforms and I think it's free. -- Shane McEwan CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research spm@dar.csiro.au ================================================================================ Anything that happens, happens. Anything that, in happening, causes something else to happen, causes something else to happen. Anything that, in happening, causes itself to happen again, happens again. It doesn't necessarily do it in chronological order, though. - "Mostly Harmless" by Douglas Adams ================================================================================ Aspendale, Victoria, Australia 3195 Phone: +61 3 586 7503 Fax: +61 3 586 7600 From turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au Thu Sep 9 21:32:31 1993 Return-Path: Received: from greybox.ucnv.edu.au by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA01241; Thu, 9 Sep 93 21:32:31 EDT Received: from localhost (turner@localhost) by greybox.ucnv.edu.au (8.5/8.5) id LAA24458; Fri, 10 Sep 1993 11:44:16 +1000 From: Adrian Turner Message-Id: <199309100144.LAA24458@greybox.ucnv.edu.au> Subject: DSGN: Renderer Q's, Lines & large Poly's To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu (MUDL) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 11:44:15 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 990 Hi, Just a couple of questions: What do you (the MV group) think of incorporating LINES with Polygons. ie. Having wireframe objects and lines mixed with polygonal rendering. What sparked this idea was the intent to have simple lines incorporated in my world. It can easily be done with the appropriate object representation (but thin objects don't give the properties I desire). Could it improve efficiency if it were just a line, instead of a polygon, identical from every angle/distance, or would the overhead (renderer modification) make it impractical? I also wish to have a horizon (landscape) in my world but large polygon(s) produces visability errors. Any ideas? (shortcuts?, hard code it?, splitting planes?) I am not keen on using lots of small polygons as I need speed. Adrian -------------- Adrian Turner turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au (or turner@redgum.ucnv.edu.au) Dept. Computing & Information Science, La Trobe UCNV, Bendigo, Victoria, Australia 3550 From spm@atmos.dar.csiro.au Thu Sep 9 22:49:41 1993 Return-Path: Received: from atmos.dar.CSIRO.AU by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA01308; Thu, 9 Sep 93 22:49:41 EDT Received: by atmos.dar.CSIRO.AU (920330.SGI/921111.SGI-930104.DAR) for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu id AA07612; Fri, 10 Sep 93 13:00:56 +1000 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 12:50:48 +1200 (EST) From: Shane McEwan Subject: Re: DSGN: Renderer Q's, Lines & large Poly's To: Adrian Turner Cc: MUDL In-Reply-To: <199309100144.LAA24458@greybox.ucnv.edu.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 10 Sep 1993, Adrian Turner wrote: > What do you (the MV group) think of incorporating LINES with > Polygons. ie. Having wireframe objects and lines mixed with > polygonal rendering. What sparked this idea was the intent to > have simple lines incorporated in my world. It can easily be > done with the appropriate object representation (but thin > objects don't give the properties I desire). Could it improve > efficiency if it were just a line, instead of a polygon, > identical from every angle/distance, or would the overhead > (renderer modification) make it impractical? I think line drawing is very important. The last thing I want to be doing when designing worlds is to have to create long, thin polygons. All I want is a 'line' primitive where I can just specify the endpoints. I have no idea about the practicalities of this. It shouldn't be too hard, I'd imagine. > I also wish to have a horizon (landscape) in my world but large > polygon(s) produces visability errors. Any ideas? > (shortcuts?, hard code it?, splitting planes?) I am not keen on > using lots of small polygons as I need speed. It would have to be hard coded similar to the horizon in REND386. All it really is is a different background colour for the sky and the ground. It has no "physical" representation in the real world. It could be coded easily with a few X commands. -- Shane McEwan CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research spm@dar.csiro.au ================================================================================ "Getting up early is simply a matter of mind over mattress." - W.G.P ================================================================================ Aspendale, Victoria, Australia 3195 Phone: +61 3 586 7503 Fax: +61 3 586 7600 From r1g@sapphire.gasco.com Fri Sep 10 11:49:34 1993 Return-Path: Received: from gasco.com (gasco.gasco.com) by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA02460; Fri, 10 Sep 93 11:49:34 EDT Received: by gasco.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.4) id ; Fri, 10 Sep 93 09:01 PDT Received: by gasco.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Fri, 10 Sep 93 09:01 PDT Received: from amber.nis.nwgas by sapphire.gasco.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15214; Fri, 10 Sep 93 09:04:16 PDT Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 09:04:16 PDT From: r1g@sapphire.gasco.com (Robert Grant) Message-Id: <9309101604.AA15214@sapphire.gasco.com> To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Re: DSGN: Renderer Q's, Lines & large Poly's X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII > From spm@atmos.dar.csiro.au Thu Sep 9 21:20:55 1993 > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 12:50:48 +1200 (EST) > From: Shane McEwan > Subject: Re: DSGN: Renderer Q's, Lines & large Poly's > To: Adrian Turner > Cc: MUDL > Mime-Version: 1.0 > > On Fri, 10 Sep 1993, Adrian Turner wrote: > > > What do you (the MV group) think of incorporating LINES with > > Polygons. ie. Having wireframe objects and lines mixed with > > polygonal rendering. What sparked this idea was the intent to > > have simple lines incorporated in my world. It can easily be > > done with the appropriate object representation (but thin > > objects don't give the properties I desire). Could it improve > > efficiency if it were just a line, instead of a polygon, > > identical from every angle/distance, or would the overhead > > (renderer modification) make it impractical? > > I think line drawing is very important. The last thing I want to be doing > when designing worlds is to have to create long, thin polygons. All I want > is a 'line' primitive where I can just specify the endpoints. I have no > idea about the practicalities of this. It shouldn't be too hard, I'd imagine. > I agree that lines are a useful facility - the only problem with them - which is why I didn't include them - is that the line width is fixed at whatever distance the object is at. This is a minor problem, but it does introduce weirdnesses! I don't think it would be too difficult to add - just a new primitive called line (or polyline) - similar to the polygon type and a field in the part structure that indicates that this part is to be rendered as a line, not a surface. Thinking about it though...shading lines might be a problem as well! :-( Check it out... > > I also wish to have a horizon (landscape) in my world but large > > polygon(s) produces visability errors. Any ideas? > > (shortcuts?, hard code it?, splitting planes?) I am not keen on > > using lots of small polygons as I need speed. > > It would have to be hard coded similar to the horizon in REND386. All it > really is is a different background colour for the sky and the ground. It > has no "physical" representation in the real world. It could be coded > easily with a few X commands. I agree that this can be a useful feature - I used to have it in a very early incarnation of Multiverse. I have contemplated adding it - it would be a feature of a world (in 1.0.2) or a room (in 1.1...) where there would be a field in the .wld file stating that there is a horizon and that it at height 'x'. The code to implement this is kind a funky - especially if you want to get the external views working correctly, but it can be done! :-) I'll see if I can dig up the code I used to do it... Good luck, Robert. r1g@gasco.com From thinman@netcom.com Fri Sep 10 14:03:08 1993 Return-Path: Received: from netcom3.netcom.com by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA02887; Fri, 10 Sep 93 14:03:08 EDT Received: by netcom3.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id AA03760; Fri, 10 Sep 93 11:15:39 -0700 Message-Id: <9309101815.AA03760@netcom3.netcom.com> From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 11:15:39 PDT X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: MUDL Subject: Re: DSGN: Renderer Q's, Lines & large Poly's > line primitive Yes, I want technicolor wiggly snakes. > landscape The right way to do this is terrain grids, but X won't do this for you. -- Lance Norskog thinman@netcom.com Data is not information is not knowledge is not wisdom. From mtidwell@netcom.com Fri Sep 10 15:16:01 1993 Return-Path: Received: from netcom2.netcom.com by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA03167; Fri, 10 Sep 93 15:16:01 EDT Received: by netcom2.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id AA20815; Fri, 10 Sep 93 12:28:32 -0700 From: mtidwell@netcom.com (montgomery f. tidwell) Message-Id: <9309101928.AA20815@netcom2.netcom.com> Subject: subscribe To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 12:28:31 PDT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] subscribe mtidwell@netcom.com montgomery f. tidwell -- \\//_ From mtidwell@netcom.com Fri Sep 10 17:11:01 1993 Return-Path: Received: from netcom4.netcom.com by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA03640; Fri, 10 Sep 93 17:11:01 EDT Received: by netcom4.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id AA14312; Fri, 10 Sep 93 14:23:18 -0700 From: mtidwell@netcom.com (montgomery f. tidwell) Message-Id: <9309102123.AA14312@netcom4.netcom.com> Subject: subscribe To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 14:23:18 PDT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] please put me on the mailing list -- Most people see things as they are and ask "why?" I dream things that never were and ask "why not?" - George Bernard Shaw \\//_ From jacoby@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu Sat Sep 11 16:31:15 1993 Return-Path: Received: from odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu ([129.106.3.17]) by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA04962; Sat, 11 Sep 93 16:31:15 EDT Received: by odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17019; Sat, 11 Sep 93 15:42:38 CDT From: jacoby@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu (Derek Jacoby) Message-Id: <9309112042.AA17019@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu> Subject: Question: Linux binaries? To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Date: Sat, 11 Sep 93 15:42:37 CDT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Hi, I just got a new pc, have gotten Linux installed, and want to start using multiverse. Now I got a version of multiverse running on an SGI at work, but it doesn't want to compile nicely under Linux. Is there an ftp site with either Linux binaries or a diff file for getting multiverse to compile under Linux? I'd hate to have to reinvent the wheel. Thanks. --Derek Jacoby (jacoby@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu) From r1g@sapphire.gasco.com Mon Sep 13 11:48:21 1993 Return-Path: Received: from gasco.com (gasco.gasco.com) by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA07025; Mon, 13 Sep 93 11:48:21 EDT Received: by gasco.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.4) id ; Mon, 13 Sep 93 09:00 PDT Received: by gasco.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Mon, 13 Sep 93 09:00 PDT Received: from amber.nis.nwgas by sapphire.gasco.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23305; Mon, 13 Sep 93 09:03:20 PDT Date: Mon, 13 Sep 93 09:03:20 PDT From: r1g@sapphire.gasco.com (Robert Grant) Message-Id: <9309131603.AA23305@sapphire.gasco.com> To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Re: Question: Linux binaries? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII > From jacoby@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu Sat Sep 11 14:19:06 1993 > From: jacoby@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu (Derek Jacoby) > Subject: Question: Linux binaries? > To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu > Date: Sat, 11 Sep 93 15:42:37 CDT > > Hi, > > I just got a new pc, have gotten Linux installed, and want to start > using multiverse. Now I got a version of multiverse running on an SGI at work, > but it doesn't want to compile nicely under Linux. Is there an ftp site with > either Linux binaries or a diff file for getting multiverse to compile under > Linux? I'd hate to have to reinvent the wheel. Thanks. > > --Derek Jacoby > (jacoby@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu) > At one point, people were going to send me binaries for 1.0.2 which I would make available at our ftp site (medg.lcs.mit.edu), but I only got an SGI set....so what about it? (I can actually make Solaris binaries available, if anyone is interested? Robert. r1g@gasco.com From rwebb@panix.com Mon Sep 13 13:10:38 1993 Return-Path: Received: from panix.com by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA07247; Mon, 13 Sep 93 13:10:38 EDT Received: by panix.com id AA20668 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu); Mon, 13 Sep 1993 13:22:42 -0400 From: Russell Webb Message-Id: <199309131722.AA20668@panix.com> Subject: To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1993 13:22:42 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 522 > From r1g@sapphire.gasco.com Mon Sep 13 12:50:03 1993 > At one point, people were going to send me binaries for 1.0.2 which I would > make available at our ftp site (medg.lcs.mit.edu), but I only got an SGI > set....so what about it? (I can actually make Solaris binaries available, if > anyone is interested? I'm very eager to see Linux binaries or diffs, if someone has them. I managed to get it compiled, but I just get coredumps when the client opens a window (dactyl or other). -- -Russell Webb rwebb@panix.com From timla@microsoft.com Thu Sep 16 03:04:08 1993 Return-Path: Received: from netmail.microsoft.com by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA14815; Thu, 16 Sep 93 03:04:08 EDT Received: by netmail.microsoft.com (5.65/25-eef) id AB03393; Thu, 16 Sep 93 00:15:46 -0700 From: timla@microsoft.com Message-Id: <9309160715.AB03393@netmail.microsoft.com> To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: subscribe Date: Thu Sep 16 00:15:37 1993 Hi: Please add me to the MUDL list. Thanks, --Tim From stuartj@wv.mentorg.com Thu Sep 16 09:36:08 1993 Return-Path: Received: from mgc.mentorg.com by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA15110; Thu, 16 Sep 93 09:36:08 EDT Received: from wv.mentorg.com by mgc.mentorg.com with SMTP (16.6/15.5+MGC-TD 2.20) id AA12502; Thu, 16 Sep 93 06:48:43 -0700 Received: from etc.MENTORG.COM (etc.etc.mentorg.com) by wv.MENTORG.COM (5.65c/CF5.1R) id AA02721; Thu, 16 Sep 1993 06:48:41 -0700 Received: from stuartj.etc.MENTORG.COM by etc.MENTORG.COM (4.1/CF4.7H) id AA09748; Thu, 16 Sep 93 14:48:39 BST From: stuartj@wv.mentorg.com (Stuart John) Received: by stuartj.etc.MENTORG.COM (4.1/CF4.2) id AA19732; Thu, 16 Sep 93 14:46:01 BST Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 14:46:01 BST Message-Id: <9309161446.ZM19730@etc.MENTORG.COM> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (2.1.4 02apr93) To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: unsubscribe (ignore if not admin, thanks) (Well, sorry but I can't find the admin address in my mail folder) unsubscribe me please -- _________________________________________________________________ Stuart N. John Stuart_John@etc.MENTORG.COM Mentor Graphics Corporation (UK) Tel: +44 344 867555 x2232 BRACKNELL, Berkshire, England. #include _________________________________________________________________ From r1g@sapphire.gasco.com Thu Sep 16 11:43:39 1993 Return-Path: Received: from gasco.com (gasco.gasco.com) by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA15386; Thu, 16 Sep 93 11:43:39 EDT Received: by gasco.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.4) id ; Thu, 16 Sep 93 08:56 PDT Received: by gasco.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Thu, 16 Sep 93 08:56 PDT Received: from amber.nis.nwgas by sapphire.gasco.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14422; Thu, 16 Sep 93 08:58:54 PDT Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 08:58:54 PDT From: r1g@sapphire.gasco.com (Robert Grant) Message-Id: <9309161558.AA14422@sapphire.gasco.com> To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: DSGN: REND386 Developments X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Hi everyone, Did everyone see Jerry Isdale's post to sci.vw about the new developments with REND386? I was particularly interested to see that the Bob language had been incorporated for object control - Jerry can you provide us with some more details? (I can't extract the eedemo.zip file on my Unix box :-() I also got to thinking that some kind of compatibility between MV and REND386 might be useful - if only in the object modelling sense? What to people think? Hoping for more info....! :-) Robert. r1g@gasco.com From spm@atmos.dar.csiro.au Fri Sep 17 03:27:13 1993 Return-Path: Received: from atmos.dar.CSIRO.AU ([140.79.20.10]) by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA00426; Fri, 17 Sep 93 03:27:13 EDT Received: by atmos.dar.CSIRO.AU (920330.SGI/921111.SGI-930104.DAR) for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu id AA01811; Fri, 17 Sep 93 17:39:36 +1000 Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1993 17:35:18 +1200 (EST) From: Shane McEwan Subject: Re: DSGN: REND386 Developments To: Robert Grant Cc: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <9309161558.AA14422@sapphire.gasco.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 16 Sep 1993, Robert Grant wrote: > Did everyone see Jerry Isdale's post to sci.vw about the new developments > with REND386? I was particularly interested to see that the Bob language > had been incorporated for object control - Jerry can you provide us with > some more details? (I can't extract the eedemo.zip file on my Unix box :-() I haven't had a look at it yet but as soon as I saw the post about it Multiverse popped into my head. > I also got to thinking that some kind of compatibility between MV and REND386 > might be useful - if only in the object modelling sense? What to people think? It would be way cool if MV could read REND386 plg and wld files....and vice versa! Of course, in a perfect universe MV would be able to read any object format. *grin* -- Shane McEwan CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research spm@dar.csiro.au ================================================================================ "The optimist proclaims we live in the best of all worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true." -- James Cabell ================================================================================ Aspendale, Victoria, Australia 3195 Phone: +61 3 586 7503 Fax: +61 3 586 7600 From timla@microsoft.com Fri Sep 17 19:48:20 1993 Return-Path: Received: from netmail.microsoft.com by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA02282; Fri, 17 Sep 93 19:48:20 EDT Received: by netmail.microsoft.com (5.65/25-eef) id AA20960; Fri, 17 Sep 93 17:00:04 -0700 Message-Id: <9309180000.AA20960@netmail.microsoft.com> X-Msmail-Message-Id: 74143504 X-Msmail-Conversation-Id: 74143504 From: Tim Lacy To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 17:01:41 PDT Subject: Linux Hi all: I have Linux 0.99p12 and have been working on porting (read adjusting) multiverse to Linux. If anyone has already done this, what should I look out for? Or, even better, do you have binaries? Email me! If I get working binaries out of this, I'll put them on the net, as I know of a couple of folks who really want this.... Also *may* get interested in writing a PowerGlove driver...... Most problems seem to be with path names to various include files and I am missing tsort and lorder - how crucial are these utilities? --Tim From turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au Sun Sep 26 21:44:54 1993 Return-Path: Received: from greybox.ucnv.edu.au by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA16522; Sun, 26 Sep 93 21:44:54 EDT Received: from localhost (turner@localhost) by greybox.ucnv.edu.au (8.5/8.5) id LAA24073; Mon, 27 Sep 1993 11:57:48 +1000 From: Adrian Turner Message-Id: <199309270157.LAA24073@greybox.ucnv.edu.au> Subject: MISC: renderer port to GL? To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1993 11:57:48 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 421 Hi, Has anybody bothered porting the mv rendering code to GL? I know this idea has come up in the early stages of the group but I have not head any more about it. Has anyone successfully done it with 1.0.2 or is everything still on hold until 1.1 is released? Do people think it would be a worthwhile exercise? Adrian --------------------- Adrian Turner La Trobe University Bendigo turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au From spm@atmos.dar.csiro.au Mon Sep 27 00:52:54 1993 Return-Path: Received: from atmos.dar.CSIRO.AU by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA16608; Mon, 27 Sep 93 00:52:54 EDT Received: by atmos.dar.CSIRO.AU (920330.SGI/921111.SGI-930104.DAR) for multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu id AA19652; Mon, 27 Sep 93 15:06:03 +1000 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1993 14:59:14 +1200 (EST) From: Shane McEwan Subject: Re: MISC: renderer port to GL? To: Adrian Turner Cc: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <199309270157.LAA24073@greybox.ucnv.edu.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 27 Sep 1993, Adrian Turner wrote: > Has anybody bothered porting the mv rendering code to GL? I > know this idea has come up in the early stages of the group but > I have not head any more about it. Has anyone successfully > done it with 1.0.2 or is everything still on hold until 1.1 is > released? Do people think it would be a worthwhile exercise? I think what would be ideal would be to separate the renderer as much as possible from the rest of the code so that we can rewrite it for various graphics standards. (This may already be the case. I'm not a C expert and wouldn't know my pointers from my structs. ;-) If we can do this then writing X, GL, OpenGL, VOGL, PC, Mac, Amiga, etc versions should be pretty easy............ *removes rose coloured glasses* ........or maybe not. *shrug* -- Shane McEwan CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research spm@dar.csiro.au ================================================================================ Standard Disclaimer: "I have no recollection of it at this time." ================================================================================ Aspendale, Victoria, Australia 3195 Phone: +61 3 586 7503 Fax: +61 3 586 7600 From r1g@sapphire.gasco.com Mon Sep 27 12:38:12 1993 Return-Path: Received: from gasco.com ([192.122.245.1]) by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA17292; Mon, 27 Sep 93 12:38:12 EDT Received: by gasco.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.4) id ; Mon, 27 Sep 93 09:50 PDT Received: by gasco.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Mon, 27 Sep 93 09:50 PDT Received: from amber.nis.nwgas by sapphire.gasco.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26594; Mon, 27 Sep 93 09:53:36 PDT Date: Mon, 27 Sep 93 09:53:36 PDT From: r1g@sapphire.gasco.com (Robert Grant) Message-Id: <9309271653.AA26594@sapphire.gasco.com> To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Re: MISC: renderer port to GL? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Hi all, I haven't used GL so I'm not sure exactly how easy a port would be....however the majority of the interface code is restricted to colour.c, render.c and xio.c so it shouldn't be too major?? Certainly a goal for V2.0 is to contain the graphics IO code. Robert. From mtidwell@netcom.com Mon Sep 27 15:43:50 1993 Return-Path: Received: from netcom4.netcom.com by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA17916; Mon, 27 Sep 93 15:43:50 EDT Received: by netcom4.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id AA00976; Mon, 27 Sep 93 12:57:40 -0700 From: mtidwell@netcom.com (montgomery f. tidwell) Message-Id: <9309271957.AA00976@netcom4.netcom.com> Subject: Compiling on a MIPS 3230 To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Date: Mon, 27 Sep 93 12:57:40 PDT Cc: mtidwell@netcom.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] I'm trying to get MV running a a MIPS 3230 and i'm having a prob. i've got to the point of compiling generic.c in the worldServers/... directory and this is what i do/get: .......................... % make all cc -systype bsd43 -O -I. -I../../include -c generic.c cc -o ../../bin/generic generic.o -L../../lib -L/usr/lib -lServer -lExt-lWParser -lMsg -lm -lbsd ld: Undefined: usleep isspace isalpha *** Error code 1 .......................... what i can't figure out is (1) why are these undefined, (2) why are there here (they don't seem to be used in MV), (3) how to get past this darn error. many thanks to any who can help. -- Most people see things as they are and ask "why?" I dream things that never were and ask "why not?" - George Bernard Shaw \\//_ From turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au Mon Sep 27 21:39:38 1993 Return-Path: Received: from ironbark.ucnv.edu.au by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA18476; Mon, 27 Sep 93 21:39:38 EDT Received: from localhost (turner@localhost) by ironbark.ucnv.edu.au (8.5/8.5) id LAA17455; Tue, 28 Sep 1993 11:52:59 +1000 From: A Turner Message-Id: <199309280152.LAA17455@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au> Subject: DSGN: Mouse pointer idea To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu (MUDL) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1993 11:52:56 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1367 Hi, I was just thinking of how I could increase feedback to the user in multiverse. What do people think of the idea of being able to change the mouse cursor representation depending on the state of the input device (mouse)? At present it is set to crosshair but why not allow it to be defined by the server(application). The client could still have the default crosshair but allow it to be overriden with a new default. It would be as simple as telling the client the new default cursor and/or the new cursor shape for whatever state is desired. For example the left mouse button could be set to an up arrow to indicate forward acceleration in dogfight. The default could be set to a hand to indicate to the user to grab an object and when the button is pressed it could change to a closed hand. Standard X mouse cursors could be used, or maybe custom designed cursors could be incorperated. If the client did the mouse cursor changes according to predefined settings by the server the response time for feedback of the user action would be faster than the round trip to the server and through the renderer. Adrian PS. Robert, what is the state of MV 1.1? ---------------- Adrian Turner turner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au (or turner@redgum.ucnv.edu.au) Dept. Computing & Information Science, La Trobe UCNV, Bendigo, Victoria, Australia 3550 From mtidwell@netcom.com Tue Sep 28 14:33:03 1993 Return-Path: Received: from netcom2.netcom.com by MEDG.lcs.mit.edu (4.1/TOC-1.2S) id AA19817; Tue, 28 Sep 93 14:33:03 EDT Received: by netcom2.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id AA14975; Tue, 28 Sep 93 11:46:58 -0700 From: mtidwell@netcom.com (montgomery f. tidwell) Message-Id: <9309281846.AA14975@netcom2.netcom.com> Subject: MIPS binaries To: multiverse@medg.lcs.mit.edu Date: Tue, 28 Sep 93 11:46:58 PDT Cc: mtidwell@netcom.com (montgomery f. tidwell) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] thx for your help Sean. well i got everything to compile. the generic server (dactyl) runs, well it doesn't abort or give msgs so i'm assuming it running. however the client gives a "Segmentation fault (core dump)" msgs. which from past experience, tells me next to nothing. so, before i go crazy trying to find out whats going on, Does anyone know if there are MIPS binaries of MV floating around? -- Most people see things as they are and ask "why?" I dream things that never